tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-88861775386202005692024-02-07T01:23:49.253-08:00Genetic Strandslife in the funny laneDNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-83030175172940619882012-08-21T19:49:00.002-07:002012-08-21T20:08:26.231-07:00Genetic Interview: Sonny RollinsAbout a year ago I got to interview Sonny Rollins. You would think after two decades of interviewing music legends and other illuminaries I would have a certain savvy about me--and you would be wrong. I get extremely nervous the bigger an artist is--before talking to Sonny Rollins I asked a jazz friend what I should avoid mentioning--his response was to avoid talking about jazz.<br />
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This proved eaiser then you would think as my knowledge of jazz is limited to a mushroom trip listening to John Coltrane's A Love Supreme and Alice Coltrane's Om Supreme back-to-back. And yet, talking to Sonny was like talking to the grandfather I never knew--he was deep, wide and funny.<br />
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The biggest white guy snafu was when I sent him a picture to sign. Another friend of mine had a uncle who was a famous Bay Area jazz photographer and he volunteered a stunning black and white of a young Rollins to get signed. When it arrived back, Sonny had autographed it and dedicated it to Dexter Gordon. This seemed galant and a bit odd, but what the hell Sonny Rollins is 82 and he can do as he pleases. A week or two went by and my buddy called me and let me know we had actually sent Sonny a picture of Dexter Gordon.<br />
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DNA: This is DNA with the Good Times in Santa Cruz<br />
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SONNY ROLLINS: <i>Oh, yes, Hello.</i><br />
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How you doing man?<br />
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<i>Fine thank you.</i><br />
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Thank you for taking a little time out of your day to chat with me for a short while<br />
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<i>You’re welcome</i>.<br />
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How are you feeling today?<br />
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<i>I’m feeling well!</i><br />
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<i></i>
Very good. You excited about coming out for the Monterey Jazz Festival?<br />
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<i>Well it’s always an event I look forward to—whenever I play I struggle on the part of myself to create a good musical experience. That’s always there, never the less. But the opportunity to come back to Monterey is always a challenge that I hope to meet in some degree. </i><br />
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<i></i>
Is it true that after so many years you approach every performance as a struggle? Has it ever been easy to play?<br />
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<i>No it’s never easy. Sometimes the results are easy when, you know, turn out extraordinarily well. Sometimes you cannot determine how these things happen. We’re subject to the elements and all the things that make a good night happen—and who knows why, because we try our best. We never know so it’s never a sure thing. At least not for me because I’m always trying to improve myself and the musical experience—it’s never taken for granted, like “Oh, it’s gonna be a great gig in Monterey.” It’s always a challenge to satisfy the people and satisfy myself.
Do you like to surround yourself with other musicians who have the same philosophy? Surely, there are some people you end up playing with who feel that a gig is a gig and don’t try to challenge themselves or the audience.
I can’t surround myself with people—this is a personal philosophy that I cannot expect any other guys to have. I cannot determine that, I just look for a certain musical level that they need to have and do what I need them to do on a professional level. It’s a philosophical way of thinking and playing and I don’t require that from members of the band.
I think of somebody like Chuck Berry who just requires the band to know his songs and be prepared to play them in any key at any tempo without any improvising. Of course, rock is a different world than jazz, yes?
Yes, because improvising is what jazz is all about. I wouldn’t say there is a higher of lower level between rock and jazz, it’s just different. In jazz you have to be ready to improvise—it’s completely in sub-conscious levels—so you never know. When I play I try to reach a subconscious level, I don’t want to play on a conscious level—I want to be letting the music play itself. I certainly admire people like Chuck Berry and what they do.</i><br />
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Do you use the new media, like the internet to research new information or check out new players on the scene?<br />
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<i>I enjoy seeing music. I don’t listen to music at home. I haven’t for a long time. But I do enjoy seeing people perform. At home, for some reason I don’t listen to any music and I haven’t figured out why I haven’t done that for many years.</i><br />
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Do you have a stereo—could that be it?<br />
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<i>I got the whole thing. At one point in my life, of course I listened to stacks and stacks of my idols. Maybe I just don’t want to listen to anything too different than my own sound. I’m not sure if that’s why I don’t listen to other peoples stuff, I love other peoples stuff. It’s great to listen to people who have something to say—it inspires me, really.</i><br />
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Who amongst the latest wave of jazz greats do you like to hear?<br />
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<i>My last concert that I did with people that I admire a great deal were Ornette Coleman, Roy Hargrove, Jim Hall and Christian McBride a great great talent and Roy Haynes. I like those guys and the younger guys like James Carter, Joshua Redman, Ron Holloway plays a more contemporary sound. I have come across people like Wynton Marsalis and really like them. I don’t live in the city so I’m kind of isolated in a sense.</i><br />
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Where do you live?
<i>Upstate New York.</i><br />
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My whole family is from Newark, New Jersey. I spent half my life there and half my life here in California. It’s a different energy on the East Coast.<br />
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<i>Which is preferable?</i><br />
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Neither is better or worse. I love both of them at different times. I’ve been listening to your recording from the Beacon Theatre that you just mentioned and particularly enjoying the tracks with you and Ornette Coleman. Having not shared time together in 60 years, was that particaulary exciting that you were going to be playing together?<br />
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<i>It was nice. We had never played together live before. We did play together back in Malibu, California in the mid-50’s on the beach, but never onstage. Back then I used to play all the time. Ornette came out with me one night. My thing was I like to play with the elements, the ocean and all that. I used to go with Don Sherry, the trumpet player and we’d go in the park and play. Part of it was that outdoors you can play as loud as you like and you won’t have anyone throwing bottles at you. </i><br />
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I hope you don’t find this to be a superficial question, but as I look at pictures of your over the years, you have always have some great hair styles. A friend of mine sent me a picture of you and Coleman Hawkins and you have a Mohawk. Did you have a friend that gave Mohawks?<br />
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<i>One of my fans was a native American guy, you know, so during that period I began to read some literature about native Americans—I used that hairstyle as a tribute to them. </i><br />
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Were you more self-conscious as younger man about the way you looked onstage? Do you struggle with what you’re going to wear to a performance these days—or as is?<br />
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<i>Sure, sure. I came up at a time when the musicians were really well dressed—sharp suits and everything. I was inculcated into that at an early age. And then times changed and guys were getting onstage in jeans and sneakers—and I went through that change as well. I still want to be presentable onstage. I don’t go onstage without any thought. I realize I’m onstage and know people are looking at me. At this age I don’t strive to be the dandy that I used to be. Now I wear things where comfort comes first but it’s not like I dress when I get a cup of coffee. </i><br />
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It does seem to me that in the first half of the 20th century there was a greater sense of style in fashion, in automobiles and that people knew what “looking good” meant. Do you feel we have peaked? That we had our golden era and nowadays everything harkens back to another day? Do you feel that jazz peaked at a certain time, or that it constantly evolves?<br />
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<i>I feel that there was a golden age of jazz, probably that ended in mid-century. I don’t mean that was the end for jazz, just that it was a particularly fruitful period. It’s natural that it would subside in a way and I’m sure that things could pick up again and there will be another great age. Things change and the music has to be open to change, but I think that jazz is an opening of music. The question is what is jazz? Is it a singer in a café with a piano trio—no, jazz is the spirit in music, the spirit of freedom. And that will always be here. What we call the classical period can be seen in the photograph by Art Kane—of course Miles and Coltrane are not there—they were working and everyone else was available. It was those guys that made a big impact. Jazz is such an unpredictable form, it’s a spirit. So when you say jazz, I don’t know how to respond—because I don’t know what you mean by that.
Here we are in 2011. People are trying to push Obama out of office, wild rhetoric that would have seemed at home 60 years ago is once again strong and loud—politically there is a movement to make one gigantic step backwards. Now would be a good time for the kind of jazz or rock and roll or any kind of music that focuses on the freeing of the spirit to take the stage. Finding the commonwealth of humanity is noble pursuit but it is not everyone’s pursuit. Your personal philosophy is something unique to you, but I wish we could instill it in more people.
Even in the age where you might have felt that everything was progressing in a good way, whether you might believe in it or not—they were always countervailing forces. Just like the movement in jazz goes up and then down and then up—it’s the nature of life on this planet. Sure they are things that are against jazz but there will be an era where people embrace more freedom. Jazz is freedom, it’s the unexpected, it’s not always doing the same thing. Yes, there are rules but trying to correlate that with political movements. . .Look there movements in jazz, styles come and go.</i><br />
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You’re a great inspiration and I wish you good health and safe travels.<br />
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<i>That’s very kind of you. You have really asked some provocative questions. But I would say don’t feel despondent. People will, of course, feel down and then feel up, but that’s the world. The world is like that. Water, waves that go up and down—we are part of the physical world. It’s the way it is. It’s never hopeless, and it’s never hopeful, it’s just always changing. We don’t know why we are here and nobody knows where we came from on this planet—but one thing is that it’s not all good and it’s not all bad—so it must be that there a philosophy that we have to take out of that. Everybody isn’t a good person and everybody isn’t a bad person and that’s just the way it is.</i><br />
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I do stand-up comedy, that’s my passion, and I’ll listen to your music before I go onstage to try and bring my brain around to place that isn’t fixated on absolutes, so I can reach people with being funny and some element of truth, or at least honesty. Thank you for those words.<br />
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M<i>y contact, Terri, is so excited about how you got this DNA as a name. She told me to ask you, but how can I ask a question like that?</i><br />
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You wouldn’t be the first person to ask, Sonny.
It’s the initials of my given name and when I started doing comedy in 1990, I knew I had to have a funny name so I legally changed it to DNA. It’s a blessing and a curse. I’m getting married and my fiancée and I are in negotiation about what her name will be. She doesn’t want to be known as Mrs. DNA. So she’s taking the A and adding it to her last name which is Perry. So she will be Mrs. Perry-A.<br />
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<i>Oh, that’s a good one. You have to use that in your act!</i>
DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-31877144259020185322012-05-14T22:48:00.002-07:002012-08-21T21:26:24.080-07:00Talking about The Mother Hips<a href="http://www.jambands.com/features/2012/05/14/the-mother-hips-hipnic-iv-one-fan-s-perspective/?1">http://www.jambands.com/features/2012/05/14/the-mother-hips-hipnic-iv-one-fan-s-perspective/?1</a>DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-60562196578066132132010-10-11T09:56:00.000-07:002010-10-11T10:18:42.764-07:00An Interview with Grateful Dead archivist: Nicholas Meriwether<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiPcSurJ37OsuxwN0l0EFhVZUFQxfvCoVXavEVUlHtAxzvQdD3_pV_YDi2nykgsofviEZl8wZZsXX-i9qy0GzPTBnbVe1V3lM8ejw-NHwVr8tEv5G821sEcDeZb_bjuI5UswOcYenFTOCY8/s1600/IMG_1458.JPG"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiPcSurJ37OsuxwN0l0EFhVZUFQxfvCoVXavEVUlHtAxzvQdD3_pV_YDi2nykgsofviEZl8wZZsXX-i9qy0GzPTBnbVe1V3lM8ejw-NHwVr8tEv5G821sEcDeZb_bjuI5UswOcYenFTOCY8/s320/IMG_1458.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5526839118670901426" /></a><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjF9AqS5MEUe-Ob07C88uIdypIG0T-B-Q5FQmA8BTu6ocHbVBw4d9wvlQ0g0-c-m3zMe3FZFB7VwHiwtDjHQP4uckjS2mWhsVt9K-lxJT7-Um1GIYq3oo0tRQD5wHbjHcHbEk231DyThSJe/s1600/IMG_1454.JPG"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjF9AqS5MEUe-Ob07C88uIdypIG0T-B-Q5FQmA8BTu6ocHbVBw4d9wvlQ0g0-c-m3zMe3FZFB7VwHiwtDjHQP4uckjS2mWhsVt9K-lxJT7-Um1GIYq3oo0tRQD5wHbjHcHbEk231DyThSJe/s320/IMG_1454.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5526838898654763954" /></a><br /><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhgy3x3LcgQsP7Tz8sDHwJfG_1Z1iUmhejnPt3tIHmlWMyHlcJQKdnnbSBbz-yB8XLKDcFSVZ56cNHygRRWrPi-jdPiNOgAk91vGhPJzfbY0DsnrXx0cLE7MjiF_hmI-LILkLVe_QnGqAmZ/s1600/IMG_1457.JPG"><img style="float:left; margin:0 10px 10px 0;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhgy3x3LcgQsP7Tz8sDHwJfG_1Z1iUmhejnPt3tIHmlWMyHlcJQKdnnbSBbz-yB8XLKDcFSVZ56cNHygRRWrPi-jdPiNOgAk91vGhPJzfbY0DsnrXx0cLE7MjiF_hmI-LILkLVe_QnGqAmZ/s320/IMG_1457.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5526837443421045906" /></a><br />THE DEPTHS OF THE DEAD<br />by DNA<br /><br />The original opener for the interview with Grateful Dead archivist, Nicholas Meriwether began, “Like Superman wandering around the Fortress of Solitude, slowly unpacking his crystals. . . “—but got self-edited in a measure to not seem like a dunce. I may know Grateful Dead, but I don’t know academics. You can read the printed article <a href="http://www.goodtimessantacruz.com/santa-cruz-arts-entertainment-lifestyles/santa-cruz-arts-entertainment-/1755-a-legacy-of-ecstasy-and-transformation.html">here</a>.<br /><br />This, then, is the raw unscripted version of our talk. It wandered, it meandered, a few things were taken out for discretion---much laughter pervaded the entire interview—hope you enjoy.<br /><br />Meriwether holds a bachelor of arts degree from Princeton University, plus a master's in library science—with a specialization in archives—from the University of South Carolina.<br /><br />His research on the Grateful Dead, their cultural significance, and their impact on late 20th century society has resulted in a number of publications.<br />Meriwether is the editor of All Graceful Instruments: The Contexts of the Grateful Dead Phenomenon (Cambridge Scholars Press, 2007), as well as four volumes of Dead Letters: Essays on the Grateful Dead Phenomenon (Dead Letters Press).<br /><br /><br /><br />DNA: I’m a little daunted, I did some research and you’re incredibly well educated.<br /><br />NM: Not at all. (Laughter) It’s great to be able to hang out in school until you know what you want to do with your life.<br /><br />DNA: You’re an East Coast guy. Was it a big culture shock moving to Santa Cruz?<br /><br />NM: I lived in San Francisco for ten years, Oakland for a year and a half and San Mateo for a year and a half so I knew exactly what I was getting into.<br /><br />DNA: Do you find it more subdued here in Santa Cruz then say, Oakland?<br /><br />NM: Not really, actually. I dated a girl for two years in Santa Cruz when I was living in SF. And there’s a little bit of a different vibe, but not that different. And both of them are so radically different form the East Coast vibe, that it’s more an East Coast/West Coast thing. And I was born in South Carolina and the North East/South East is so different, as well. Where are you from?<br /><br />DNA: I was born in Newark, NJ. During the 1960s riots Newark was on fire. My dad likes fire, not just being in one, so we moved one town over to West Orange.<br /><br />NM: I went to college in New Jersey.<br /><br />DNA: Princeton.<br /><br />NM: Right, absolutely. I was there from Fall of 1983 to Spring of 1987.<br /><br />DNA: I moved out here in 1985 to go to Graduate school and be closer to Jerry.<br /><br />NM: So you’re a fan as well. Good, excellent. How many shows?<br /><br />DNA: 500 Jerry shows.<br /><br />NM: Dude.<br /><br />DNA: I was committed. <br /><br />NM: That’s impressive. I think I saw close to 80. <br /><br />DNA: But you’re also a scholar. When you go to community college it’s easier to miss class. In graduate school I majored in Transpersonal and Humanistic Psychology—going to Dead shows was research.<br /><br />NM: I think there is a definite parallel. Some of the more interesting Dead work is being done by psychologists. One is Stanley Krippner.<br /><br />DNA: Right, love Krippner. He did the dream telepathy experiments with the Dead back in 1971. I didn’t realize he was still involved with the Dead.<br /><br />NM: He is part of a group of scholars that study the Dead to and meet once a year at one of the big national conferences. I recruited Stanley three or four years ago and he’s a regular—he’s 83-years-old now, but he’s got more energy, sharp as a tack and loves to come hang out with us.<br /><br />DNA: When you meet are talking about what happened in the past or recently? Which Dead band do focus on: Further, Ratdog, Phil and Friends or the Rhythm Devils? They’re back with friend Tim Bluhm playing with them—Keller Williams dropped out and Tim from the Mother Hips stepped in.<br /><br />NM: I’m so busy with the archive that I haven’t seen too many shows. I did make it to Outside Lands. Swallowing the archive I’ve sort of dropped out of being a Deadhead.<br /><br />DNA: It’s one of those ironies, I’ve been so busy writing about music journalism that I don’t get to as many shows as I would like too.<br /><br />NM: I did see five Further shows. I saw the first three and went to the NYE shows—and I had big fun with that. That was interesting. Further is the most successful post-Jerry aggregation. My contention is that if that they should have chose Steve Kimock and paid him well and let everything else go. He’s the only guitarist for my money that can do Jerry without floundering.<br /><br />DNA: Jerry even passed the torch when he called Kimock his favorite guitarist. <br /><br />NM: I think Further works now because they simply gave up. Warren Haynes is a wonderful guitarist, but not in that context. Jimmy Herring is a wonderful guitarist but not in that context. Kimock was great, but they won’t be able to keep Kimock—so the thing they did is good. The core of Further is that you have these two great “rhythm players,” amazing virtuosi—putting Weir and Lesh together is putting two rhythm players who are acting as the lead and everyone is arrayed out and subservient, tributary to that—and it works and it’s cool and it’s interesting.<br /><br />DNA: I went primarily for Jerry. I loved travelling around making my way by selling shirts, anklets, license plates in the lot—but that was not why I was there. I wanted to be near the touchstone. I feel that people now are just living in the echo. On the other hand, when I was 16 I told myself that I would never get jaded. So new experiences, getting to hear Dead songs live for the first time, congregating with friends for adventure is awesome--I salute fans going to shows. But it’s not for me.<br /><br /><br /><br />NM: I just had a fascinating interview with a kid who never saw Jerry, but he really gets “it.” I saw something of that when I went to a Ratdog show about three years ago. Here’s me in my gray hair in my 40s with a bunch of my contemporaries and we’re looking around overwhelmingly at 19/20 21-year- olds. The thing that I was so charmed by was for them the highlights were Greatest Story Ever Told and One More Saturday Night. And I remember thinking, “Wow, the reason they are going apeshit over this is because they know this is as close to the Dead as they are ever going to get.” He’s interested in doing some oral histories with people even younger than he is—who also somehow get “it.” And as much as I agree with you and that was our experience and we were lucky enough to see Jerry, these kids are still getting something out of it. The other thing, DNA, let’s think about what that fucking says—just as you and I found it…<br /><br />DNA: Didn’t we always know that one older guy Deadhead who was like, “ever since Pigpen left the band it hasn’t been the same.”<br /><br />NM: Yeah! “I never saw them after 1971 because Pigpen wasn’t there.” It’s great. (laughter)<br /><br />DNA: I never try to disparage anyone from their “thing.” But my question is what is “it?” What is the “it” that younger people are getting? Is it simply enjoyment of the music? People really like bands of all kinds, they like their songs, their sounds, and the crowd they attract. You get aesthetic pleasure from the way the composition rings in your ears. So what is “it?” What was “it?” And let’s say there continues to be an “it,” what is “it?”<br /><br />NM: And how is it that that thing continues without the heart, core and soul of “it”, in our experience. I think the answer to that unfolds on several levels. Number one in general we lack a vocabulary, a common cultural vocabulary for describing the kind of X-Factor or experience that we are really getting at. We don’t have that and we’re kind of groping—I tend to think that all the scholarship that I’ve been participating in is that each one of those disciplines is trying to get to that core from their own perspective—we all know that the other perspectives are valid and we hope that if we put enough of them together that we’ll be able to see what “it” is.<br /><br />DNA: So the mystery is intact?<br /><br />NM: One of the reasons that mystery existed is explained in an essay by a fine scholar who talked about the degree to which the music was about the experience of hearing the music and I think there is a lot of truth to that. The article is by Granville Ganter; it's called " "Tuning In": Daniel Webster, Alfred Schutz, and the Grateful Dead," in John Rocco, ed., Dead Reckonings (NY: Schirmer Press, 1999), pp.172-181.<br /><br />The exact quote is, referring to Schutz's theories, "His {Schutz's] characterization of musical experience helps explain how the Dead's music can be thought of as the focal point of a communal consciousness. The Dead's sound is a kind of music about that interaction." [p.177]<br /><br />That may be why people continue to get “it.” My first falling in love with the Dead was when a California friend of mine put on Skullfuck, which I made the mistake once of saying on the radio--the eponymous live 1971 album. <br /><br />DNA: Which is often not the top of the list of favorite Deadhead records.<br /><br />NM: It tends to fall out of people’s consciousness, but it stands. The thing that blew me away was Wharf Rat—it was one of the most intelligent pieces of music I had ever heard. I thought it was the most enormously sophisticated compositions of music I had ever heard. It was an amazing combination of lyrics and music. And then of course you get into the whole side two Not Fade Away/Going Down The Road Feeling Bad and I thought that was magnificent and I was hooked. Then he gave me Dead Set and that really cemented me and then I got Reckoning and then I saw my first show.<br /><br />DNA: Is this your friend in college, Christian?<br /><br />NM: Ah, no. Christian became my running buddy. He and I saw tons of shows together. But no, the guy who turned me on is now a very respected oncologist at Dana Farber Institute and faculty member of Harvard Medical School and I don’t know if he ever saw a show—he was just a California guy who liked the Dead, thought they had a real interesting sound and thought that I should know that. I was just a good old boy from South Carolina and I said “you’re right!”<br /><br />DNA: At what point did your passion with the Dead intersect with your scholarly critical analysis of what you were experiencing? <br /><br />NM: I started thinking about it immediately. It’s funny—I actually gave my first academic lecture on the Dead in the summer of 1987 when I graduated college or 88, right before graduate school and I lectured a summer school class on the band. I came across those notes just a few months ago when I moved out here—I hadn’t seen them in years and I looked at them with a sense of, “Oh my god, what the hell was I saying.” None of the good reference books had come out yet. What was amazing was that I hadn’t gotten that much wrong. Almost immediately I thought this is worthy of explication. <br /><br />DNA: As a guy who had an enormous amount of time and money invested in his education, were you concerned that your passion in a supremely strange band, at a time when there were no other scholarly treatises were written would label you as a wingnut? I recall the first book about the Dead was written by Hank Harrison and it was a skewed bunch of literature combining occult knowledge with a fictional narrative.<br /><br />NM: Of course, Courtney Love’s father.<br /><br />DNA: He later tried to cash in with a story about how Courtney killed Cobain.<br /><br />NM: He’s insane.<br /><br />DNA: I remember Mickey Hart being very vocal that the book did not represent the band. The book was filled with astrological charts and I knew the band was weird, but I didn’t resonate with Harrison’s particular kind of weirdness. So when you began down the road of scholarly analysis of the band you didn’t have much text to back you up—you were an archeologist digging in an area nobody had ever explored before. When did you tap that vein and realize you were onto something and think this could be a career or at least a deeper pursuit?<br /><br />NM: I never thought it could be a career and until I took this job….Let’s fast forward. One of the things that every scholar who studies the Dead phenomenon has to come to terms with is the stigma that attaches to you from studying that—sociologists are keenly aware of that because it’s happened in other areas. There’s a famous sociologist who studied strippers—he did a fine conservative job on a very reasonable topic, but he was immediately labeled…<br /><br />DNA: He became known as “that guy.”<br /><br />NM: Exactly. So we all have to contend with that. It was interesting for me because I was at a crossroads in career before I took this job. I had been offered a high-level job at the university I was at before this and I saw my career path diverging. If I had stayed there and taken that new job not only would I not have time not do anything outside that area which was mid-nineteenth century American southern cultural and intellectual history—it was an either or situation. Up until then I had managed to have a fairly eclectic carved out bohemian lifestyle in the academy which is not easy to do—but you can do it if you are a librarian or an archivist—but you can’t do it if you are going to teach. My crossroads was I either take this job and come out and do Dead studies and solely Dead studies or I stay there and give up on the Dead studies—and I really was not sure which direction I was going to go in. I let the two universities have a bid for me. There were really compelling arguements on both sides. One of the arguments against taking this job was exactly your statement about being labeled. My contention is, stepping back from it—I was born and raised in South Carolina and I had studied American cultural and intellectual history at a pretty high level. So I had a real sense there were contexts and precedents that really were exactly analogous for what I was interested in seeing happen with Dead studies. I could take comfort in the fact that I might be getting beaten up for studying something like this now but that is no different from what earlier generations of scholars had gone through. My father was pilloried in the 1950s for wanting to study this obscure southern writer, who at the time had all his books out of print and he was very weird and no one paid attention to him and then he won a Nobel Prize and gave an incredible acceptance speech. At that point everyone said, “This guy William Faulkner has got something going on.” And from then on, father looked pretty good. (Laughter) There’s a wonderful book on Black Nationalism and Jazz that came out in the late 1960s—he starts the preface of the book by saying, “It’s traditional to start a book by thanking all your colleagues who helped you, tragically none of those people thought this topic was worth studying.” And that was 1969—it’s a reminder to all of us. General Jazz studies started not long after that but Jazz faced a similar problem of being accepted academically. You can go back to before then in the 19th Century, opera was considered a debased and vulgar form of classical music, ain’t nobody going to say that today—it’s a high art as it gets. So I would say in fact to summarize all the work being done on the Dead—and there are some wonderful currents, Bob Weir is engaged in an interesting project with Giancarlo Aquilanti of the Stanford Wind Ensemble and are going to have an amazing premiere of Weir’s symphony which is based on taking motifs and elements from a whole slew of Grateful Dead songs and turning it into a symphony. This is by way of saying that you could see the broader forces at work that have always worked in culture which is as folk art becomes popular art and eventually passes into high art—it’s not a universal process, but I definitely think that it is the complexity of the Dead that lends themselves to high art. They are in many ways as high art as they are folk art. There’s enough good work done by good high-end musicologists to demonstrate that. I can point you to four essays right now that will make you agree. <br /><br />DNA: From the Graceful Instruments collection?<br /><br />NM: Two of them are in All Graceful Instruments and two more are from a book called Perspectives on the Grateful Dead edited by Rob Weiner, but they’re all enormously bright and very accomplished musicologists. Their essays make the point that not only are the terms of art music absolutely applicable to what the Dead did, but even more, you need those terms to satisfactorily explain how that music is working. When David Malvini describes the incredibly complex orchestration of Terrapin Station he points out that, oh by the way, you know how many rock songs have been written in the key of F—the Dead do that. When you read Graham Boone about why Dark Star hits you a certain way, he’s giving you an intellectual and musical vocabulary how the music works and sockets into on an emotional level—and it’s absolutely compelling. There’s lots of examples of how academic musicology and sociology having a real hard time with rock music. There’s a great opening in a book by a British sociologist named Simon Frith considered the dean of rock sociologists—he has great fun opening one chapter of a book called Sound Effects where he takes an Animals song and he juxtaposes this really high-level erudite musicologist’s voice:<br />(Nicholas lowers his glasses to the bridge of his nose, slumps in his chair and becomes a stuffy music snob.)<br /> “This kind of riff is kind of a blend of Mozart and Bach, I call Mach.” (Laughter) Incredibly high-falluting and you’re just going along forgetting the fact it’s really a very simple Animals song. Then he juxtaposes this Animals clip where the band members are saying, “Right. Me mate and I wrote this in the back of the van, badly hung over, vomiting and we sort of did this and it kind of worked.” A very Spinal Tap kind of thing. Often rock has had that difficulty where you had this very academic approach to the subject matter that did not work and often ended up looking ridiculous. It never looks ridiculous with the Dead, ever. In my first long interview with Dennis McNalley he asked me, “Nick, you know what made the Grateful Dead don’t you?” I said, “I think I do, I also think you’re going to tell me.” He said, “Three geniuses.” I said, “Agreed.” He said, “Name them.” I said, “Easy. Garcia, Lesh and DNA?”<br /><br />DNA: He mentioned me? (Laughter)<br /><br />NM: No, I’m asking you who is the third?<br /><br />DNA: I would have to say Mickey Hart.<br /><br />NM: No.<br /><br />DNA: Well this is a horrible game and I’m now I’m losing. The audience? No, that’s not it. Damn.<br /><br />NM: Hunter.<br /><br />DNA: Oh yeah. <br /><br /><br /><br />NM: He’s the other critical thing. Don’t get me wrong, Weir is brilliant. And you could make the argument that he too is a genius. The proper analogy there is that there is an amazing string quartet in classical music—musicologists point to the Budapest String Quartet being the entity that really redefined the way that a String Quartet is understood today. There is a brilliant second violinist named Sasha Schneider and the way to understand Weir’s role in modern music is that he reinvented the rhythm guitar. The first time I saw a show I thought, “So many licks that I used to think were played by Jerry are played by Weir.” The symbiosis between those two is just extraordinary. For my money as a fan I think Two Djinn and Ashes and Glass which are the post-Jerry Ratdog songs, for my money, those are Bobby’s equivalent of Lazy River, So Many Roads and Days Between—which are the most stunning later era Garcia/Hunter songs. <br /><br />DNA: What about Black Muddy River?<br /><br />NM: No that was much earlier, 1987 or so. I’m thinking the last gasp of songs.<br /><br />DNA: Wow, it’s amazing to hang out with somebody who knows the answers to stuff. It’s actually easier with my friends because they just agree with whatever I say even when I’m wrong.(Laughter) I’ve seen countless side projects. Bobby and the Midnites, Kokomo, Go Ahead…<br /><br />NM: I saw Kokomo and Go Ahead and it was bad, I thought nobody had seen that stuff.<br /><br />DNA: I remember, but every Garcia show was magic. Whether it was JGB, or Old and in the Way, or Grateful Dawg or just solo, or with John Kahn—I understand the whole Theodore Sturgeon, More Than Human, Misfit Power story of the Dead, but even away from the Dead, unlike anyone else in the band, Jerry could still manifest the mojo and with the other guys I didn’t really feel it. Look there are plenty of musicologists who write about all kinds of music, and the Dead are no exception—but what about everything else going on at shows and I don’t mean the lots, the travels, the pretty colors. Plenty have tried to pen thoughts regarding the glance that Deadheads gave each other, the knowing. I think it’s still ill defined. And while Jerry was verbose, when asked about any hidden meaning in the Grateful Dead he signed off.<br /><br />NM: And he was pretty consistent about that. At the same time there are some scattered comments from him on the record I’ve heard over the years where he says, “You know, I don’t really believe in anything I cannot see, touch, taste at the same time if there are enough reports like that you can’t discount them, you have to take them into consideration.” Your question seems to have two different parts. One part is how we as academics as fans as just thoughtful people, how can we keep pushing at naming the ineffable, putting words to something that is transcendent. That is really what Stanlel Krippner’s work in life is all about—post-modern science says that we may not able to replicate something in a laboratory but that doesn’t mean we cannot come up with ways about talking about it. It sockets me back to a wonderful comment my mother made to me. She’s a very pragmatic, down-to-earth person, a very Southern lady but a very progressive feminist, not namby-pamby, she had an MA in Chemistry and all that stuff, she’s passed away now, but years ago she told me was that one of my siblings had been born, and this was at a time when the practice was to immediately remove the newborn from the mother and to let the mother sleep. I forget which sibling it was but they wouldn’t shut up and my mother couldn’t get to sleep. Hours after the birth, the nurse comes to my mother who is still awake and she says, “I know the baby is still awake, bring him-or-her to me.” I think that we are connected in ways that we do not understand yet—and some point we will learn how those connections work, but right now we do such a bad understanding of our brains—such a bad job of so many fundamental things. I have no problem saying much of what we describe as happening in those moments of highly charged connections in a community—there’s a reason we have words like synchronicity, they may not be technically accurate but they are certainly getting at something that everybody has a window into. It doesn’t mean that you have to get all mystical and put crystals on yourself to pull out bad vibes or something. The point is not to become untethered, the point is to admit ignorance. Admit a place in your life for profound mystery, how could it be otherwise? At the same time don’t get all wrapped up thinking you can control the channel to understand we’re still as a people a long way from that. <br /><br />The second big thing is that I do think on an academic scholarly level we can push the discourse a lot further than we have—the approach that I take, that I’m working on now with one of my books is to demonstrate how the approaches to the Dead all fit a pattern of scholarship that has really come into particular focus over the last hundred years across a number of different disciplines and how the ways that we have suggested and have started to talk about the Dead actually fit in with these actually broader and deeper intellectual currents and themes and I do think there are certain things we can point to like Mikhail Bakhtin <br /><br />DNA: Who’s that?<br /><br />NM: A guy who has a theory almost a sociological or cultural theory of carnival and how that describes these kind of luminal moments of ecstasy and transformation. You can go back all the way to the Eleusinian mysteries. When I first walked into my first Dead show, my reaction was, “Wow. I am going to spend the rest of my life thinking about this and this is my generations Eleusinian mysteries, this is it.” The Eleusinian mysteries insured that when you left you were transformed—nobody could talk about it, but they would spend the rest of their lives thinking about it. Sounds familiar doesn’t it? And I don’t think that happens in any other venue or form. <br /><br />DNA: Part of your job is that you are also a fundraiser for the archives.<br /><br />NM: I wouldn’t call myself a fundraiser, I think the proper way to put it is that any special collection that comes into any archive in this country at this time, all are hurting badly. Taking care of archives is more expensive and more difficult and more time consuming than taking care of books. It’s an enourmous resource intensive process. Every archive has to do fundraising and development. You can make a cointrinution to UC Santa Cruz, McHenry Library or directly to the Dead archive and it’s all tax deductible, 100%. I get a certain amount of money that is donated free and clear, but I also get in kind donations of materials we need, pictures, posters recordings, you name it. I got a wonderful gift last week of a handpainted jean jacket of Mars Hotel, just an amazing piece of Deadhead art. So yes, I am actively trying to raise money but that is part of what it takes to build a collection and that requires a lot of different things. I work with interns, I write articles, I do interviews, I conduct oral histories and I also talk to people who have money who are interested I supporting the archive.<br />DNA: Have you seen Slugs and Roses?<br /><br />NM: Yes. I love the healthy musical scene that Santa Cruz has. I’ve seen Shady Grove, The China Cats and Slugs and all are remarkable bands. A wonderful convivial collaborative scene.<br /><br />DNA: I would imagine that the red-headed stepchild for you might be something that is integral to the story of the Dead—LSD.<br /><br />NM: One of my responses is that the problem with that conversation is that our country does not do well when we discuss substances or inebriation in any way shape or form—very much conditioned by our Puritan past. There’s a religious overlay that deeply informs the American thought, remember we are only country stupid enough to try and ban alcohol. Dinoysianism ain’t where we at as a species. As an example of that look at the genesis of drug literature in this country is Fitz Hugh Ludlow’s The Hasheesh Eater. He is the son of a minister and a Presbyterian abolitionist. The fear that runs through his novel, the Calvinist repudiation of inebriation being an invalid thing for humans to do. It starts in the 19th century, look at all the temperance movements. There are a good couple of scholars who have done analysis of how marijuana became illegal and in general is the kind of way that prohibitions have happened. What that scholarship has proved is that prohibitions are really political control of an undesireable class. So the wave of anti-marijuana laws in this country that began in the early 20th century is essentially targeting Mexican workers. Prohibition of alcohol was celebrated by Republicans who toasted it with hard liquor because it would shut down all those beer drinking saloons where the Irish would congregate, and the Irish democrats would congregate. Scholarly research shows that prohibitions aren’t about controlling substances, they are about controlling part of the population for political reasons. And I think that is compelling. This is how in the middle to late 1960s you could be sent away for more years for a conviction of having two joints then you would for violent rape. Eric Schlosser’s recent book Reefer Madness where he says: Look at what we have done with the war on drugs—we’ve destroyed people’s lives. It’s a very respectable mainstream book. He goes on to say: Any society that finds it more appropriate to punish a non-violent drug offense with greater severity than you do murder, has lost its bearings, and I think that’s absolutely correct. This is along winded way of saying the question is just hopeless and by asking that question you have identified yourself among the ignorant. There is no amount of lecturing by me or any other human being that is going to bring you face-to-face with your predjudices and your misinformation.<br /><br />DNA: Except maybe a nice tab of acid.(Laughter)<br /><br />NM: In a hundred years I hope that this archive is able to give a future archeologist the stories of personal transformation that came out of the Dead scene. Most of the collection is off site for processing, but I will take you to the ultra secret high security room and let you see what I got.DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-46394616353393899352009-11-05T12:52:00.000-08:002009-11-06T08:08:03.309-08:00Interview with Richard Metzger former CCO of Disinfo.com<a href="http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x95/votedna/?action=view¤t=PenguininCarLCSRIGHT.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x95/votedna/PenguininCarLCSRIGHT.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><br /><br />Over the years I have done my fair share of interviews. Sometimes it was a job assignment that I carried out as professionally as I could muster. Usually, it was because I had somehow convinced somebody I admired to talk to me. 99% of the interviews were published somewhere or another, but, this one, fell through the cracks until it landed in my lap this morning.<br /><br />I love the weird side of life and for years had read books from Disinfo.com about global conspiracies, alien abductions, psychedelic research and Suicide Girls. Founder Richard Metzger and I were on for an interview that took a few days to iron out for my publication, HUMP. There were missed calls, interruptions, dead cell phones and then the kicker was that this interview went unprinted for over 5 years.<br /><br />The interview is thick. Turns out Metzger’s favorite later-day Leary story was one I had written in an Australian magazine called REVelation. His empire was looming, my novel was about to be released—but the landscape was bleak. Bush was in office and hope seemed far off.<br /><br />In the end we theorized that a charismatic candidate might yet emerge from the shadows. In my novel I had imagined a skinny/community activist/addicted to cigs/messiahish/b-ball playing candidate that people call a socialist and communist. Real life gave us Obama.<br /><br />Here then is the tale:<br /><br /><br />Richard Metzger: Hello? <br /><br />DNA: Hey, I'm looking for Richard.<br /><br />R: Speaking.<br /><br />D: This is DNA with Hump Magazine.<br /><br />R: Hey, man. How are you?<br /><br />D: I'm doing pretty good. How are you doing?<br /><br />R: I'm great.<br /><br />D: Is now a good time?<br /><br />R: Yeah, sure thing.<br /><br />D: Cool. What's going on in New York City right now?<br /><br />R: You're calling Los Angeles.<br /><br />D: Oh, you're in L.A. <br /><br />R: Yeah.<br /><br />D: Alright, well, oh, right, that's good. It is earlier than it would be if I called you in <br />New York. [chuckles]. That's good. I got lost in your website for the last hour or so. It's quite a ride. How often do you personally post and stuff on your website, or does it kind of run by itself?<br /><br />R: Me, next to never. Every once in a while I'll forward something on to Alex Burns -- who's the site's editor -- and he'll put it up. I actually don't do it that often myself. I haven't, really, since the late nineties.<br /><br />D: What do you got your hands busy in right now then?<br /><br />R: Well, just -- running the company, in general. We publish a book a month, and <br />usually a DVD a month -- so that's pretty big. <br /><br />D: Totally. And I saw something about a feature film?<br /><br />R: Yeah, I don't know why -- where did it say that because . . .<br /><br />D: On the information page.<br /><br />R: Oh, really. At one point we sort of did but, no, that's sort of fallen by the wayside.<br /><br />D: Oh, really? Why is that?<br /><br />R: It's not worth discussing.<br /><br />D: Well, it would seem, though, that with your hands on all the information, is it just <br />about getting a good screenplay together?<br /><br />R: No, it was about the property we were going to buy.<br /><br />D: Was it the Da Vinci Code?<br /><br />R: No, it was the Invisibles.<br /><br />D: Oh, right. So you moved on to the hardcore business side. Was that always your main pursuit -- working the business side of things?<br /><br />R: No, not really. I was the TV producer for a long time, and then the dot com thing came around, and I was able to take one of my favorite TV ideas and make it into a dot com thing and have corporate funding -- TCI at the time -- now known as AT&T Broadband -- but it was TCI's money -- their stockholders' money, rather -- that was behind it, behind me being able to realize some kind of underground thing on a higher budget than it normally would have received in any time in the past. The dot com era made that possible. I went from being someone who was essentially a producer and a director -- on the creative side -- to being someone who was doing all that but also had to deal with a business on a day-to-day basis, and . . .<br /><br />D: Hey, Richard. My phone's about to die. I'm going to call you right back.<br /><br />R: Okay.<br /><br />D: Fuck. Piece of shit fuckin' phone! Fuck you, you stupid cocksucker!<br /><br />[recording interference].<br /><br />[dial tone].<br /><br />[number being dialed].<br /><br />[phone ringing].<br /><br />R: Hello?<br /><br />D: Hey, this is DNA with Hump Magazine.<br /><br />R: Hey.<br /><br />D: Good morning, how ya doing?<br /><br />R: Good morning.<br /><br />D: How ya doing?<br /><br />R: Doing good. Can we start this in about 20 minutes?<br /><br />D: Yeah, you want me to give you a call you back in 20?<br /><br />R: Yeah, that would be great. <br /><br />D: Hey, no problem, dude.<br /><br />R: [unintelligible].<br /><br />D: Okay, bye.<br /><br />R: Okay.<br /><br />[recording interference].<br /><br />[dial tone].<br /><br />[recording interference].<br /><br />[phone ringing].<br /><br />R: Hello?<br /><br />D: Hey, this is DNA with Hump Magazine.<br /><br />R: Hey, there, how are you?<br /><br />D: Good. How are you today?<br /><br />R: I'm great.<br /><br />D: Sweet. Hopefully the phone won't die today. Sorry about that yesterday.<br /><br />R: No problem.<br /><br />D: I spent a lot of time on your website over the last couple of days. I was just wondering, as a starting point maybe, where -- did you always have kind of a deep fascination with the kind of news that you weren't getting any other place? How did the initial idea to start the site come up? What was your passion to get it going?<br /><br />R: Well, yes, it's a two part answer. Yeah, I've always been interested in weird, unusual things. When I was kid I was a real bookworm, so I used to read a lot of counter culture books and stuff like that. This was like in the late seventies, when I would have been coming of age. That was the time when there was a lot of that kind of stuff around, you know, and mainstream publishers that published that kind of stuff 'cause that was just what was in the air then and that's what they did. So there was a lot of that kind of stuff turning up in like used book stores and stuff when I was . . .<br /><br />D: Was it like . . .<br /><br />R: You know, something like Naked Lunch or books on underground film -- like, let's say a book about, like, you know, [underground film in New York] -- I remember being a film that I loved -- books by people like [Parker Tyler].<br /><br />D: [Carlos Castaneda]?<br /><br />R: I wasn't really into that, but, yeah, that kind of thing. I mean, I read those books. They didn't really impress me that much, but I would read things like Leary's books or [Burrow]'s, and I was especially interested in [Alistair Crowley]. I guess those were the three main things that I was really interested in.<br /><br />D: What about, like, Philip K. Dick?<br /><br />R: I wasn't really a Philip K. Dick person. I liked him -- Lenny Bruce was more my speed. My sort of pantheon when I was a kid were Leary, Lenny Bruce, and William Burrows and Crowley. . .<br /><br />D: [overlap]. That's a pretty good trinity, right there.<br /><br />R: Yeah. Then, to answer your question about the site, I was working, for a little while, for Jerry Brown's presidential campaign. I guess it would have been in 1981, so it was the '82 election when Clinton won -- '92, rather. I devoted my life, for about six weeks, to Jerry Brown in New York state, so I was at a lot of meetings, and speeches, and public events, and so forth, and I'd look at the way that they -- I'd buy all the newspapers the day after something seemed particularly good to me. It's actually worth reminding you, or whoever's reading this, that there was a short period of time where he was beating Clinton in the primaries and from a surprise upset in Michigan, and another one in Connecticut. So New York was next. So Jerry Brown was actually looking -- Whoa, Whoa, what's going on here? Could this fire brand maverick candidate actually -- well, you know, how far could he get? I don't think anybody thought he could be president, but how far can he get? How long can he say what he's saying, and say it on CNN, and NBC, and ABC, and get that kind of exposure? That was kind of where I was more at with it anyway, just to see how far can this be taken in the media. Like I said, I never thought he could be president, but it was interesting to note that there was this up-kick in his fever at that point with a lot of people on the left. What I saw was you know 10,000 people, perhaps, at a campaign rally where the streets would be closed off and the cops, you know -- it'd be like a big deal -- and it would get reported in Newsday, New York Times, The Daily News, The New York Post, etc, etc, much differently than it had appeared to my own eyes. There would be discrepancies of sometimes 7,000 people between one article and the next. It became very strange, and I just realized that journalism was made by people who had a bias or that they were lazy or that they were generalizing or, you know, any number of things. Journalism, in a sense, is like any other industry -- it's like there are people who do their job really well, and there are people who do their job very poorly, and there are the people who will do anything they can just to escape having to work.<br /><br />D: Just print whatever's in the press release, rather than research it?<br /><br />R: Yeah, yeah, exactly -- the people who will just regurgitate a press release -- you're absolutely right -- or worse -- not that it was anything nefarious, I just thought it was -- the way the system works is human nature -- that's how it occurred to me. I never really saw it as a conspiracy, although a lot of people do. I don't see it that way. There's people who want this kind of thing, and I was seeing -- at that same time -- and having myself -- a growing interest in conspiracy culture in the 90s. After Oliver Stone's JFK, and then [Art Bell] becoming so popular, and zines. Obviously zines were still a new thing. That kind of information was coming out for the first time, and I thought, if this is fascinating to me, it would be fascinating to others if it was presented in a way that was not going to be distasteful or intimidating to them. There was a conscious effort to put together a glossy front or a sheen or a store front or whatever you want to call it to bring people in who might be looking for political information or who might be looking for conspiracy theory information or who might be just looking for something weird to goof on or something about a weird cult or whatever it is they can find on the Internet. We endeavor to become the portal to that kind of thing where somebody who didn't really know what they wanted to do -- or someone who did -- and know they could get a certain kind of thing if they came to our URL. <br /><br />D: Right, do you think that -- how old are you?<br /><br />R: I am 39.<br /><br />D: I'm 42 so we're kind of right in the same boat . . .<br /><br />R: (overlap). The same leaky boat . . .<br /><br />D: The same -- well, that depends on how you want to look at it. I, too, was going out searching out Leary books early on, and it was always difficult to find that kind of information. Maybe I put more stock in it because I actively had to go, rummage . . .<br />R: (overlap). I think so. I know I did. I've said similar things in interviews myself<br /><br />D: I actually got to spend like three days with Leary and I produced his last show before he ending up just staying down in LA.<br /><br />R: Which one?<br /><br />D: It was up in Chico. I was working for Magical Blend magazine at the time. I was helping with editorial and doing a bunch of stuff there. I don't know if you've ever heard of Magical Blend?<br /><br />R: Oh, yeah.<br /><br />D: Leary was coming up for Chico State so I ended up being his chauffeur for a couple of days and then I invited him . . .<br /><br />R: There isn't an article about that in Revelation magazine, is there?<br /><br />D: In Revelation? Yeah, I wrote that.<br /><br />R: Oh, yeah -- I have that issue still.<br /><br />D: Yeah, I wrote -- I worked with [Peter Collins] for like five years . . .<br /><br />R: (overlap). Something about going into a Denny's. He doesn't want to go into a Denny's. He was pounding on the -- you wrote that article, huh?<br /><br />D: Yeah.<br /><br />R: I remember thinking that captured him really well because it showed how fucking out of it he was.<br /><br />D: He was out of it, but as soon as he was in front of the media, he was sharp.<br /><br />R: I've seen, in my own personal experience with him, it's gone from where he's just like all over the place -- and it's not even like he was like high. It was like he had been high for too long.<br /><br />D: Yeah.<br /><br />R: He was so burnt out. Interesting to note, if you watch a film of Leary in the mid-60s, like when it was still black and white -- he's still got the tie on. He was burnt out then He was inarticulate then. His raps in the 60s were very inarticulate, you know?<br /><br />D: Yeah.<br /><br />R: Compared to a lot of his contemporaries in that counter culture club or whatever, he is the poorest of poor.<br /><br />D: He [faired] better than Jon Lily.<br /><br />R: Enough said there.<br /><br />D: Yeah. So then I booked a show with him up here and in the interim it was national news that he had terminal cancer. I was like, "Do you want to finish this engagement?" He was like, "I've never cancelled a gig." He came up here, and he did his show, and then he died a couple months later. <br /><br />R: Not a couple months later -- about a year later. He milked that thing for like a year. I mean, I remember being at his house on a Friday and it got announced on like a Monday in the New York Times. I'd been sitting there waiting for an hour and 45 minutes. I was about ready to go, actually. There were all these people milling around as normal up there -- didn't seem to know who anybody else was or where Tim was. Anyway, suddenly he walks through the door -- and I had seen him probably two and a half years prior to that and he looked really good when I had seen him last -- and he was 72 and he looked like [Johnny Carson] -- what you expect Leary to look like from that era -- and all the sudden he came in and he had the goatee and his skin looked terrible and his hands were starting to rot away. I was like, "Whoa!" I think he assumed that we had heard the rumor about his cancer, but we hadn't. He walks in and this woman who I was with said, "Hey, Tim. How's it going?" He just sort of stuck his hands out like, "Well, you know," and it was weird because I remember thinking, in retrospect, after I read that article on a Monday -- he was, the whole time, alluding to this, and thought we understood what was going on. I understood vaguely that he had been ill but I didn't know it was anything terminal, you know. Boy to he look -- it was shocking to see him -- how bad he looked.<br /><br />D: One of the things that was interesting when he was up here for that performance was one of the news guys who took me aside and he was like -- you know how news guys are -- they're pretty clean cut -- you know, they don't rock the boat too much or they try not to -- and he said, he goes, "I did acid in the 70s and I've never done it since. Can you tell me what I experienced, was that real?" I go, "I don't know what you experienced but it might have been real. It blew his mind.<br /><br />R: Yeah.<br /><br />D: I think so many people, who've maybe dabbled in that kind of stuff, had cosmic experiences and then kind of pushed it aside to go on with their life.<br /><br />R: Yeah.<br /><br />D: Leary was the touchstone for that for a lot of people. He was pretty inspirational to be with but it was like hanging out with your grandfather. He was always like yelling at me about something.<br /><br />R: He could be very testy.<br /><br />D: Yeah.<br /><br />R: Yeah.<br /><br />D: On the other end of the spectrum, one guy who's remained completely brilliant over the years has been like Robert Anton Wilson . . .<br /><br />R: (overlap). Bob's great.<br /><br />D: And I got to push his wheelchair around down in Palm Springs a couple years ago at a [prophet] conference . . .<br /><br />R: (overlap). Yeah, I was there.<br /><br />D: Oh, yeah?<br /><br />R: Yeah, I was up in his hotel room. Were you hanging out there?<br /><br />D: I was not in his hotel room. A woman I know, Susan, took over the wheelchair aspect of that . . .<br /><br />R: (overlap). Some British guy who brought him a bunch of mushrooms. 'Cause I went back to his room. We were like getting high.<br /><br />D: He -- The Illuminati Trilogy -- 'cause you were talking about [The Invisibles] -- and it's like -- yesterday -- Wilson seemed to be like one of those guys who pulled together all these different disparate elements of conspiracy and put it out in a fictionalized novel . . .<br /><br />R: (overlap). Oh, yeah.<br /><br />D: Then, with the [Da Vinci Code], now, and people saying how it's the most brilliant thing ever, it just seems like kind of a rehashing of stuff I've read for 25 years.<br /><br />R: Yeah, Da Vinci Code, it's more properly, I think, a rehashing of [Name of the Rose].<br /><br />D: Oh, right, yeah the holy blood, the holy grail<br /><br />R: (overlap). Pendulum -- no, the [Empire Eco] two novels, that Sean Connery movie.<br /><br />D: Oh, that's right.<br /><br />R: Yeah, that's really close to what Dan Brown does. It's funny, we've been making money off of Da Vinci Code related products. We've got the DaVinci Code, like, fan book thing. So somebody who wanted to know, "How much of this stuff's true," could like go back and read that, and we just sort of cynically put it out to make some money, obviously -- it wasn't like either one of us were great Dan Brown fans. I think that book sucks, personally. We did end up selling a boat-load of those books. Then, this summer, I did a documentary -- it's like a 90 minute documentary -- about the Da Vinci Code as well. I mean, I really think it's stupid but it's big business right now. Like it or not, [Disinformation] is somewhat in the Da Vinci Code business. <br /><br />D: Right.<br /><br />R: I mean, I know it's [naft], believe me. It's stupid.<br /><br />D: Yeah. I just finished my first novel and it's a contemporary look at the Messiah returning. I was raised orthodox Jew but I went to church for the last year and a half, trying to get some insight into, you know, what is going on for these two billion Christians, and Da Vinci Code was often in the hands of the different preachers I saw at different churches.<br /><br />R: I think that's great.<br /><br />D: Obviously disputing it, not agreeing with it.<br /><br />R: Yeah. The fact is, you know what, though? It's like -- think about it this way too -- there could be a 12-year-old kid sitting there listening to them dispute it and thinking that's kind of rational to me. I mean, let's face it, whenever you hold the Bible up to any kind of scrutiny, it falls apart. I mean, it really, really falls apart. It's inconsistent within its own covers from chapter to chapter. I always thought the Bible was absurd when I was a kid. <br /><br />D: Right, well it's that amalgamation of stories that have been translated and mistranslated over the years. Do you think that -- in '85 there was the Jose Agrguelles Harmonic Convergence and it was this whole idea of we're entering a new age. The Y2K thing wasn't so much a new age as it's all gonna fall apart. All this apocalyptic . . .<br /><br />R: (overlap). 2012.<br /><br />D: Yeah, 2012 -- Armageddon kind of philosophy that's spouting around now with more access to it with, you know, your website, and with [Surfing the Apocalypse]. It's easy to find out what this stuff is. Do you think it has less value or do you think it's permeating the culture more for people?<br /><br />R: Well, if you can find it, and you have access to it, and it's around more, then it would have a positive effect. I don't think information in and of itself is ever gonna have no effect or be ineffectual or over-exposed. It's not going to be like, you know, oh, I'm sick of [Grace Jones] this year -- oh, God I can't stand Paris Hilton anymore, you know -- it's not like that. It's always different stuff. I think it's a good thing. I don't really know how to answer that question but I don't see it being devalued . . .<br /><br />D: (overlap). The one thing of Arguelles I actually always liked -- one of his quotes -- "When the light hits, dark gets tough." Not to put everything into black and white, but with the inauguration yesterday, and all the headlines in the British tabloids -- you know, [I] thought things were bad during Reagan's reign, but certainly in this place we're in right now, in a lot of ways, we've become the enemy of the world.<br /><br />R: It was that way then, too -- "We are the enemy of the world". I mean, I was abroad for two years during the early '80s and there was constant antagonism towards Americans in the U.K. -- living in London -- there was a [constant] antagonism towards Americans. I mean, I got very good at deflecting it. It's absurd when, let's just say, some young British person would want to walk up to me and have some kind of argument about what Reagan was doing -- "Dude, you really think I have a lot of influence with him?" The only thing you can do is look at someone incredulously and say -- and ask something like that just to point out the absurdity of it. I think it was bad then, and I think it's bad now. Here's the thing -- I look at it this way -- I'm not like a Bush-hater. I didn't vote for him. I had a queasy and uneasy feeling when he got back in, but I don't hate him. I think he has a point of view. You know what I'm saying?<br /><br />D: Yeah, totally.<br /><br />R: People have a point of view. It's a strong one. It's not one that I subscribe to, but I can understand these kind of people. I come from those kind of people. My parents are republican. My sister and her husband are republican. I know those kind of people. They want to do good in the world. They don't want to do evil.<br /><br />[recording interruption -- reggae music?]<br /><br />R: But, you know, it is what it is, and, you know, I just don't think you can get that involved in it. I think someone like Wilson has a really good perspective on all of this because he's old enough to. I think it always seems like it's going to be The End -- mind you, it seems a little bit worse now than it did during the '80s -- but I can remember during the '80s thinking, you know, God, if [Casper Weinberger] thinks that we're in the end days, and he's [The Guy] -- that's fucked -- you know? It's not quite like that. It's different now. You know what I'm saying? [Are we] still hanging on the very hairy edge of annihilation of the planet ? Yeah, we definitely are. That's what it's been for a fuck of a long time, though. Is it better now? It probably actually is. It probably actually is better now. You know what I mean?<br /><br />D: Do you think that the access to information makes it . . .<br /><br />R: [overlap]. Better than it was in the Cold War.<br /><br />D: Right. Do you think more people having more access to information helps make a more intelligent populace?<br /><br />R: Yeah, definitely -- definitely. I mean, like how hard was it for them to sell this whole war to half of the population? Very hard, you know -- very, very difficult. They have not made that sale. There is a very -- hang on one second -- sorry, just let me see who's calling me.<br /><br />[silence]<br /><br />R: Hey.<br /><br />D: Hey.<br /><br />R: Anyways.<br /><br />D: Do you have a couple more minutes?<br /><br />R: Oh, yeah. I'm fine.<br /><br />D: I did a thing up here four years ago called Nudists for Nader and I released that we're going to do a rally for Nader and have nudists show up, and the media came -- we ran for three days -- because we actually did have nudists show up, and then we gave free pizza to the media, and it was all about Nader was coming to Chico. It was the last stop on his tour, like, a week later. I was running for Mayor at the time so I got to run the Nader show, and introduce him, and there was such a feeling in the audience of a possibility of change, of something amazing was going to happen -- maybe that's how it was when you were on the brown campaign -- but it really petered out pretty quick. Do you think -- the nuts and bolts of democracy -- that a third party coming along is actually something that's going to make a progressive change in this country?<br /><br />R: Yeah, I think that's the only thing that's going to happen. I think that there is a high likelihood that there could be someone who could emerge from nowhere -- on a reality show even -- and become some sort of charismatic person who can capture the public's imagination, simply on charisma, and then raise the money after that. I think that -- you know what's most surprising is that it hasn't happened already.<br /><br />D: [overlap]. Yeah.<br /><br />R: In the past 20 years there hasn't been more of a -- not really like a necessarily onward gantry because that implies a negative thing -- but, like, where somebody hasn't just taken advantage of there being the sort of media [sphere] that there is and become some kind of ubiquitous all media celeb -- you know, like, Howard Stern -- someone like that, conceivably -- I don't think he could do it now -- but at a certain time -- maybe could have run for political office [and he didn't] but who knows.<br /><br />D: [overlap]. Wasn't he going to run for governor of New York?<br /><br />R: Yeah, he was, but they wanted to look at his tax returns . . .<br /><br />D: [overlap]. Yeah, it was his tax returns.<br /><br />R: I think that was all posted on that website, too, but -- Smoking Gun -- but I think that there's a high likelihood of there being someone like that. I think it's the kind of thing where it might be like -- like the French would say -- a manifestation -- where there would be some kind of political party that would, I think, appear, maybe, ad hoc around some sort of charismatic candidate. I can also see it going away just as easily.<br /><br />D: Totally.DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-45358512856033673952009-11-05T12:17:00.000-08:002009-11-05T12:20:21.861-08:00There was a Time: reflection on chico<a href="http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x95/votedna/?action=view¤t=Page_1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x95/votedna/Page_1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><br /><br />1987 in August I moved to Chico during the Harmonic Convergence. First stop, Mount Tam (I was the guy in the Life Magazine photo behind the photographer). Second stop, due to a untimely death of my trusty (to that point) baby blue Delta 88-- the finest car made in the last half of the 20th Century--Oakland. Frankly, I was lost.<br /><br />Saint Vincent de Paul became heir to half my belongings before I even got to Chico. I don’t know what they ended up doing with my High Times collection and black light posters, but I’m sure somebody in Oakland appreciated the donation.<br /><br />Chico, like most summers, was hot that year. A hot I had never experienced. Arizona had a dry heat. New Jersey has a humid heat. But Chico had a mind-bending heat. A heat that would make you lie in a bathtub of cool water because it was too hot to make it to the river. <br /><br />During those first dog days the streets seemed to stretch out in a haze of melting asphalt. The people on the sidewalks, my first exposure to Chicoans, walked around when it was 110 degrees like it was no big thing. I suppose that was an inkling into the Chico psyche. <br /><br />Rent was $110 for a one-bedroom in a four-plex, next to a very young Eli and Ben Bird, and a still young Stevie Cook. <br /><br />A minimum wage job could carry you through the month. <br /><br />Fraternities had keggers where seminal versions of the Hips and Circus learned their chops. The beer flowed freely and there were no white gangsters--thugs maybe--but America and Chico’s imagination hadn’t been marred with the need to be a pimp. All we had was Huggy Bear. MTVs version of hardcore hadn’t arrived, yet.<br /><br />Hippie parties were bacchanals. Days long, dragged out in the streets, drugged out on the lawns and the cops weren’t that hip, yet.<br /><br />Halloween, Pioneer Days, St. Patrick Days, Memorial Days and every weekend, thousands of people clogged the streets walking from bar to bar, following bands and just being a menace in the streets. <br /><br />West Second Street was dominated by Ted Shred, whose uttered name would cause skate rats to scatter, quickly. Ted was X-Games.<br /><br />I became familiar with the legion of Chico families who had been fighting the good fight, whose children carried on the tradition. I was an outsider who was welcomed in. I had found the extended family I always knew existed.DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-18874208323850632292009-11-04T18:34:00.000-08:002012-08-21T21:25:25.406-07:00WHAT THE FUCK<a href="http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x95/votedna/?action=view&current=212842.jpg" target="_blank"><img alt="Photobucket" border="0" src="http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x95/votedna/212842.jpg" /></a><br />
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We need a big "what the fuck." Something that will take our minds off the all current fucking dilemma we got brewing. I saw an interview with a Palestinian woman, beautiful all wrapped in muslin, who organized suicide bomber missions. Apparently not all terrorists are men. Newsflash to me. Because if women are involved in terrorism, we're doomed. We coulda beat the men, but the women will get us every time.<br />
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It's all too much. I mean, Al Fucking Gore is on the bandwagon that we have a slim 100 years before a Global Climate Shift. Give or take a 100 years. I think an awful lot of fatcat democrats are sitting around thinking, "hell I got 100 years. Gotta plenty of time to see some Grandkids learn how to shaft the poor." But when have scientists ever been right? They are constantly changing their mind. They call it refining their results. If the ocean raises 3-5 feet, 70% of the population will have to be mobilized to higher ground. Have you ever tried to lead a group of people in any physical movement? It's like training a monkey to use an IPOD.<br />
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Other effects of this imminent global shift are it's gonna get hotter and colder. More fires, more blizzards, more hurricanes and more tornadoes. <br />
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Meanwhile Mohammed Armididjidad is going to do something fucked up real soon. Can't you just feel it. Cuz he hates Jews. Wants to move Israel to Alaska and that's not going to happen. Florida maybe, but not Alaska. Meanwhile, Meanwhile back at home, it's a complete mess. <br />
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So where's the huge "what the fuck" that we all need. Where's that giant UFO?<br />
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Am I the only one that wants one to appear? Because if that happens even a Palestinian woman hell bent on blowing up children will have to look up and say, "what the fuck."<br />
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It would have to give one pause. <br />
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We say it's the 21st Century, but it's more like the 21st Century BC. Everyone still hates Jews. But now we got Ipods. What have Jews done that they have been hated, persecuted and oppressed for over 4 thousand years? Those early Jews must have been really annoying. <br />
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You can imagine some Ur meeting, some Sumerian council where the head poobah says, "it's time that we as a culture set the bar higher, " and from the back of the room you hear, "bar, bar, two jews walk into a bar, they buy it. Bada bing, I got a million of them." "Arrest the Jew, in fact Arrest all of them."DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-75797374616432971022009-05-25T13:48:00.000-07:002009-08-08T23:28:43.046-07:00An Interview with Jackie Greene.Fuck Rolling Stone—A interview with Jackie Greene.<br />by DNA<br /><br /><a href="http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x95/votedna/?action=view¤t=06_jackie-greene.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x95/votedna/06_jackie-greene.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><br /><br />Jackie Greene is living a pretty cool life. His songs are on the radio. He tours around the country with friends. He guest sets with Phil Lesh and the Mother Hips. <br /><br /><br />As chance would have it I got the chance to interview Jackie for the local weekly here in Santa Cruz, <a href="http://www.gtweekly.com/20090519426483/a-e/events/blues-fest-goes-greene">Good Times</a>. Very little was used in the story as it ran and so I decided to create a longer piece for the web.<br /><br />We started a preliminary talk via email as Jackie was driving around Montana on tour with his band. We moved onto a phone call and things loosened up a bit. <br /><br />DNA: How was your last show at the Santa Cruz Blues Festival?<br /><br />Jackie: As I recall, the weather was perfect last time and the crowd was really energetic and eager to be moved. The food was fantastic and we had lots of fun. Things like that stand out to me.<br /><br />DNA: Promoter Bill Welch books you for the Blues Fest, as well as <a href="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/125/392115751_53c0a0c98f_o.jpg">Moe’s Alley</a>—are good promoters essential to your happiness on the road?<br /><br />Jackie: Bill lives and breathes live music. I've done a dozen shows with <br />him and each one has been great. He takes care of the acts that come through his club. He knows what it's like. <br /><br />DNA: You playing new songs on the road?<br /><br />Jackie: As far as new songs, we have several but may or may not play them yet. We're dipping into the old songs a lot more and stretching out our improvised stuff a lot more. We're not really a "jam band" but we wear that hat pretty well sometimes.<br /><br />DNA: Do you change up your set depending on the venue you’re playing?<br /><br />Jackie: Well there's a certain amount of "playing to the crowd" that goes on. But more or less, we just do our thing. We're getting better and better and feeling out the situation and adapting if we need to...so it's kind of hard to say.<br /><br />DNA: As a terminal Deadhead, I was a bit more than surprised when you joined Phil Lesh and Friends. <br /><br />Jackie: Phil called me on the phone and asked me to come to a recording session and help write some songs, play guitar, sing, etc. I guess he heard a song of mine on the radio, really liked it and bought the record. I was familiar with the Grateful Dead but by no means a Deadhead. Now, I am. Phil has introduced me to a wonderful <br />world of music that has been really inspirational to me. He's one of the true visionaries of music. The Deadheads have been really kind to me and I'm stoked to be involved in their world. I was nervous as first, but I felt warmth and opened up to it.<br /><br />DNA: You ever get star struck when you meet people like B.B. King?<br /><br />Jackie: I did a few tours with BB King as his opener about 5 years ago. He's one of the greats, for sure. The first time I saw him, I was 17 years old. Next thing I know, I was opening for him. I'm a big fan. His band is fantastic. <br /><br />DNA: Do you feel like crowds in Montana are more eager to see your shows because there’s nothing else to do besides trap beavers?<br /><br />Jackie: I think there's a certain amount of truth to that, but at the same time city crowds like San Francisco and New York can be pretty <br />enthusiastic. I think it boils down to the setting, venue, vibe, how much tequila was consumed, etc. We don't get much time to sleep so we usually try and catch up on rest between shows.<br /><br />DNA: Who owns the studio?<br /><br />Jackie: Tim and I own the studio together and started it a couple years ago. He's in there more than me because I'm always on the road.<br />Right now I'm working on my new record that Tim is producing along <br />with our friend <a href="http://www.illreverend.com/">Dave Simon Baker.</a><br /><br />DNA: You guys are good friends?<br /><br />Jackie: Tim is one of my dearest friends and he's a one of a kind person. He's very important to me.<br /><br /><a href="http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x95/votedna/?action=view¤t=skinnysin3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x95/votedna/skinnysin3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><br /><br />(Finding a moment in Montana where his cell phone got bars, Jackie called up.)<br /><br /><br />DNA: Hey Jackie what’s going on.<br /><br />Jackie: How ya doing man, we’re driving through Montana.<br /><br />DNA: God’s country, big skies…<br /><br />Jackie: Animals and shit<br /><br />DNA: People with guns<br /><br />Jackie: Crazy fuckers.<br /><br />DNA: Are you in a tour bus?<br /><br />Jackie: No, we roll in a van. We’re stopping for a little dinner here.<br /><br />DNA: <a href="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/34/70344848_66e5a756f1.jpg?v=0">Moose burgers</a>? <br />So I did a little research online and during an NPR interview you said that you couldn’t say on the radio why you moved from Sacramento to San Francisco. <br /><br />Jackie: I did?<br /><br />DNA: Yeah, you said it was a reason you couldn’t say on the radio.<br /><br />Jackie: Oh, well, shit, I don’t know why I said that. I was probably going to say something negative about Sacramento. I mean, I don’t have anything bad to say about Sacramento, but at the time I was probably irritated about Sacramento. I moved because Tim and I started a recording studio. I wanted to anyway but the studio kind of kicked me in the ass to do it………..sinking a bunch of money into a place helped the decision making.<br /><br />DNA: You grew up in Salinas?<br /><br />Jackie: I was born in Salinas but I grew up in Placerville<br /><br />DNA: My girlfriend is working in Salinas today?<br /><br />Jackie: Oh cool<br /><br />DNA: You might be in love with a Mexican girl, but she’s trying to keep them from getting pregnant. (Disclaimer: DNA is a stand-up comic not afraid of a terrible joke.)<br /><br />Jackie: She’s helping them out. <br /><br />DNA: Do you and Tim have a name for your recording studio?<br /><br />Jackie: Its called Mission Bells.<br /><br />DNA: Tim just finished up with Hot Buttered Rum.<br /><br />Jackie: That’s right. They did that one there. We did a record with a cat named <a href="http://www.facebook.com/pages/Chris-Velan/20812406605">Chris Velan</a> from Montréal. The Hips are halfway through their new record, I’m about a ¼ the way through mine. A lot of shit goes through Mission Bells.<br /><br />DNA: Are you represented by Digg or Verve?<br /><br />Jackie: Currently I’m on a label called <a href="http://www.429records.com/sites/429records/">429</a>, before that I was on Verve. Digg is a label but they are just my management co.<br /><br />DNA: Are you still playing with Phil Lesh and Friends?<br /><br />Jackie: We toured in 07 and 08, but now he’s playing with the Dead.<br /><br />DNA: Are you playing with the Dead?<br /><br />Jackie: No, no, no. I’m in Phil’s band, we don’t have anything planned for this year, but you never know, Phil’s pretty surprising. <br /><br />DNA: For an old guy.<br /><br />Jackie: For an old guy, he’s pretty last minute. <br /><br />DNA: You’d think he’d have better planning by now. But he’s earned it.<br /><br />How did you and Tim Bluhm originally meet? Were you into seeing the Hips play?<br /><br />Jackie: There’s a ten-year age difference between us. I think I was a sophomore in HS when Shoot Out came out and I was totally into it. A group of friends and I were really into the Hips and we would go the park in Sacramento and see them play. We met about 5 years ago--I actually had met John the drummer, years before I met Tim. I met him at a show I was playing at and he was working at the club or something. He said, “I’m the drummer for the Mother Hips, and I was like, “I love your band.” He told Tim about me, and we started talking by email, turned out Tim was playing a solo show in NYC. We had a night off and saw him play and we hung out. I think I bought him some beer and pizza. We’ve been friends ever since.<br /><br />DNA: Is that it all it takes with Tim, some beer and pizza?<br /><br />Jackie: That’s pretty good for a Chico boy.<br /><br />DNA: How did you end up onstage with the Hips, did you rehearse and learn the songs?<br /><br />Jackie: Tim and I are next door neighbors, so it just sort of happened. We decided that I would play with them whenever they are around--I’m like the fifth Hip.<br /><br />DNA: I believe that one day the world will discover the amazing cavalcade of songs that the Mother Hips have.<br /><br />Jackie: They’re one of my favorite bands too.<br /><br />DNA: Skinny Singers--you have a new album coming out?<br /><br />Jackie: We are slowly working on something. I have my album due, so we’re working on that first. It’s fun because it’s really simple stuff, we try not make it too complicated. Our thing is that with the Skinny Singers we keep it simple so we can invite our friends to play with us and they don’t have to know our songs. Mike Ferrel played with us the other night.<br /><br />DNA: It’s like Delaney and Bonnie.<br /><br />Jackie: Exactly, but way more simple.<br /><br />DNA: You are in the midst of a pretty long tour; it seems to stretch out through the whole year.<br /><br />Jackie: With a few breaks, we’re going to come home for a couple of days and head back out for a few weeks. That kind of thing.<br /><br />DNA: Looks like you are on the track Amber Eyes, by <a href="http://www.brynloosley.com/">Bryn Loosely</a>’s new album, Wrecking Crew.<br /><br />Jackie: My part was done at Mission Bells.<br /><br />DNA: Bryn’s another Chico guy making good. So, to keep it short--I am putting together an article for the local paper, it’s not Rolling Stone.<br /><br />Jackie: That’s good. Fuck Rolling Stone. You can quote me on that.<br /><br />DNA: There’s my title for the piece.DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-69557269246972305582009-02-02T20:53:00.000-08:002009-08-08T23:29:42.714-07:00Interview with Steve SilbermanSteve Silberman- Containing Multitudes (originally published just after Jerry's passing in my rag HUMP)<br /><br />Wherever destiny takes us, we go, willingly or dragged with our heels kicking sparks. And every evening, after we find ourselves having digested an hour of a news program, our global awareness indicator points decidedly north, in an inflated sense of truth, justice and the American way. But is the media our destiny or just various individuals who spin thoughts into our info receptors. After an hour of CNN we think that we are hurky-jerky informed on world events. <br /><br />Isn’t it true that we never really know what’s going on in the world, but only certain distorted facts that get filtered through various media? Who are these men who call the shots on what is ultimately shown to us? Do they really want us to get all the facts of the story, or just certain facts? <br /><br />Traditionally, journalists were hard-boiled, martini swilling guys with degrees in Journalism, men with ink in their fingers, who often immersed themselves in stories to find out a good lead, or to get a scoop on a story. But bottom-line, men who were no nonsense and often very conservative in nature. A conservatism that was so ingrained in their character, that their stories often had conservative slants, whether conscious or not.<br /><br />Imagine what would happen if the swirling gospel of the media, that we call the news, was dictated by a hipster? <br /><br />What if Dan Rather was a proponent of Earth First or Gay Rights? Chances are that he would find it impossible to write stories that contradicted his deepest belief system. <br /><br />Just the other night, I saw Ted Koppel defending the interment of Japanese orphans during World War Two. He based the acceptance of American atrocities on knowing the details of history and therefore being aware of the specifics that lead up to our inhumane acts. He said that because the Japanese killed more Chinese than all the Japanese killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that those American’s who threw Japanese children in Hellholes, were justified. This type of logic is the sort of hypocrisy that contributes to the ills that plague our modern soul. Would a hipster ever let this type of spin on revisionist history occur? <br /><br />Since my first story about the Internet ran four years ago in Synthesis Magazine, I have tried to show you how the Net will transform our lives, and the world we live in. Many of you turned the other cheek in a basterdization of Christian ethics, but like destiny, you can’t escape history. Time and tide wait for no man.<br /><br />How could a new source for news ever compete with the monolithic dinosaurs of the current day? Well, Wired News is the David ready to slay the Goliath. And at the helm, loading stones into the slingshot is Steve Silberman. Part scholar, part Deadhead and part visionary, please welcome Steve with a high, hearty, HUMP………..<br /><br /><br />Tell me what it is you do.<br /><br />I work for Wired News, I write about a story a day, three or four stories a week and a column. Wired News is www.wired.com I seldom write for the magazine because Wired News is so all consuming. Wired News is a very exciting thing that hasn’t really been talked about much in everyone’s eagerness to bash Wired for hubris or to talk about how Wired Digital is “burning money.” Basically, what we were able to pull off, was to launch a news service last year. We’ve not only managed to stay away from the Silicon Valley press release mentality of a lot of the other on-line news services, but we’ve also stayed away from the sort of gee-whiz/hype/capitalist/lust over objects that afflicts Wired Magazine. We’ve also been able to get into the news flow and kind of inject into the media an awareness of stories that might have otherwise gone unnoticed. I wrote a story about the number of blacks getting onto the net being disproportionately higher than what one might imagine and at the same time there is a loss of minority-ownership radio stations. That story was picked up by CNN and turned into a special report. I wrote a story about this atomic veteran who survived being basically marched through ground zero in the early fifties, everyone he knew who was there with him was dead. He put up a web-site and he ended up getting a book contract to tell the story of the Atomic Veterans. So we’ve been able to be an interesting conduit for stories that otherwise would have been not noticed. I think Wired News is cool, it reminds me of a zine in a way or an underground newspaper from the sixties, but because it looks like a straight news service, we end up getting looked at by a lot of straight and mainstream media people. I have a feeling that most of the people who read us are reporters from other media. The New York Times outright stole one of the first stories I wrote for Wired News. They called me up, asked me for the contact numbers of the story I was writing about, and then ran it as if they were breaking the story. I’ve gotten totally used to that now.<br /><br />Scooped.<br /><br />Yeah.<br /><br />In the last issue of HUMP, I asked Steven Johnson who has FEED.COM if he felt that the dinosaurs like Time Magazine or the New York Times felt the new news media biting at their heels yet. He said no. Do you think that they feel competitiveness as to where people feel the source for news might be?<br /><br />Absolutely, I think people can read a lot of news and it’s not just insidery geeky business news. Allen Ginsburghs terminal illness broke on Wired News half a day before any of the wire services had it, we break a lot of interesting cultural information before the other news services. I don’t think that the owners of the Hearst newspapers are waking up with sweaty palms, worrying that people are going to go to our news service, instead of reading the newspaper in the morning with their sip of coffee. Also, I don’t think that Time Magazine is worried that we are going to go out of business. On the other hand, what I think that is even more interesting than direct competition for eyeballs, is that the on-line world as a whole is becoming an interesting challenger for some of the bullshit in mainstream media. The first time I really saw that was when Time Magazine ran a cover story on Cyberporn, siteing this study by this guy Marty Rin, who is really a student at some East Coast university. The cover was very spectacular, it was a child’s face that had been altered by photoshop so that his eyes were totally wide, he looked like he was looking at split beaver right on his screen. What happened was a group of journalists and smart folks got together on the WELL, and found out through digging a little that Marty Rins study was completely bogus. The figures that he came up with were from surf sessions on porn sites rather than general usenet statistics. The study was completely debunked. Time ran a retraction in microscopic type. Time was made to look very foolish. Even though the publisher of Time Magazine didn’t commit hari cari, it’s important to realize that the study was debunked by on-line conversation on the Well.<br /><br />So here’s the sense that there are watchdogs for the mainstream media now.<br /><br />Things like Wired News and intelligent on-line communities like the Well act as an ombudsman for the big media view of things, conventional wisdom. An ombudsman in the old newspaper world was somebody whose job it was to be a little bit cynical. They would take the coverage in a newspaper and say” is this really true?” They were the check and balance for the stories and the spin. Places like Wired News and the on-line community in general are acting like a giant ombudsman for mainstream culture and mainstream media and I think that is a profoundly important development in American History.<br /><br />The Persian Gulf had media blackout, could that happen again, or is on-line reporting going to change that.<br /><br />Yeah, I do think it will change the way public response is organized completely. It will massively decrease response time so information will be wildly disseminated on a scale that the sixties mimeographing radicals could have only dreamed. It’s as if you could go back in time and say to SDS “how would you like to have a meeting that’s a) Worldwide, b) very low cost, c) as pervasive as the television networks, and D. you can do images and text?” They would go out of their minds!<br /><br />What if the Black Panthers were able to arm the citizens of Oakland with laptops and Video Cameras, instead of guns?<br /><br />Exactly. I also think the ubiquity of video cameras is interesting, but of course it’s a mixed blessing. The story I’m working on now is how whenever a big crime happens, like the Oklahoma City Bombing, somebody comes up with pictures or video of the bombers eating sandwiches, or Princess Di walking through the hotel lobby before the car crash. One wonders if one is ever completely not under watch. But yet on the other hand, if there’s massive police brutality or something, there’s a guy with a video camera. And hopefully that information can get on the net or a television station.<br /><br />In the case of the Humboldt Cops torturing people with pepper spray, they handed in the goods on themselves.<br /><br />Around the Tiennaman Square thing, the first thing that the Chinese Government tried to do was to shut down the Fax machines. I think as the Net becomes more pervasive in Third World countries, it will either become harder for the enemies of human liberties to accomplish their deeds or it will just cause dictators and despots to completely crack down on the Net. So I think it will be both, it will be turf wars, where people will be trying to wire their local communities and organizations into the Net and Governments will be coming down on them. And coming down on them in more insidious ways as filtering software becomes more pervasive. So if you’re in country XYZ and the government doesn’t want you to see political sites, when you log on, you’ll just never see them, they’ll be invisible. Imagine if Gary Bower of the American Family Council could put his own filtering software in everybody’s machine, gay kids would never see gay teen sites and there is a lot of information that will be lost as filtering software becomes accepted as a humane replacement for censorship.<br /><br />Couldn’t all the hype about child molesters on the Web just be a rallying point for filtering software and censorship? Don’t you think that just parallels the censorship of newspapers. Aren’t certain stories kept to regions?<br /><br />Yes they are, but I see it as my personal job and mission in life to undo that and I have a very clear case in point. A couple of University of Pittsburgh students were recently barred from having any internet access and from even physically appearing in any computer labs, and they were computer science majors, so it was tantamount to expelling them. Their crime was that they had created one of the most useful net security resources for people who wanted to guard their sites against hackers that there is. It’s a site called anti on-line.com and the University simply did not understand what these kids were doing and reacted against it in a very heavy-handed way. For instance one of the first sites to talk about a hack called a windowhack, that allows people to take down windows machines remotely. It’s a very useful site that was referred to by many other sites. But these kids were screwed by not only being barred form the Net and use of any computer equipment on campus but by being barred from communicating directly with the person that was making it all happen. I got a tip from one of the students who said that the only coverage that the story had gotten was in the school newspaper. I wrote an article about it in Wired News and within two weeks, the story had gotten into USA Today, The Village Voice, The New York Times and the associated Press. The school officials, even though the case is still pending, got a heavy message that they were fucking up. I think it’s very possible for Wired News and people on-line who have compelling enough Web Sites to make regional outrages a global concern.<br /><br />Did you feel that the media adequately covered Allen Ginsbergs passing?<br /><br />Allen was a friend of mine for twenty years, all of my adult life. The depth and sensitivity of the coverage of like The New York Times impressed me, they put his obituary on the cover. There were some decent stories in the AP about him. Ultimately, the coverage he got, was because he founded a movement that has almost become a cultural trademark, the Beat Generation. Everyone from Starbucks to Levi’s has appropriated it. Granted, a lot of the content that Ginsberg and Kerouac and Burroughs had put across is not appreciated in an ad of slackers nodding, out as jazz plays in the background. But Ginsberg was perennially popular with young people, I know because I went on several different tours with him. And wherever Ginsberg went the halls were packed to capacity and often he would give a second reading to the thousands of people that were outside that couldn’t get in. So he remained, in terms of popularity for a poet, incredibly popular. I can’t say that he was necessarily influential on the current poetry scene in any kind of obvious way. There’s a tremendous bunch of corny, tacky, beatnik poetry out there in zines that I can’t say is really a good thing. But I do think that he was subtly pervasive influence in terms of encouraging public sincerity and honesty in such things as homosexuality and even drug use. I think that even though he was a very famous man, that some of his most enduring influences are part of the woodwork, part of the air that Americans breath that allows them to be a little bit freer then they would had he never lived. Certainly for a subject like homosexuality, he really was one of the first people to open the door at all on any kind of honest dialogue. Although I think what he was really saying about homosexuality is still not appreciated even by his gay fans. I asked him once in 1987 if he felt that it was ironic that he was hailed as the father of gay poetry and that he had hardly any gay friends? He said “well Burroughs and I never really considered ourselves gay, gay was like Castro street, we called ourselves queer.” What’s funny is that this was before the word queer was resurrected by the younger queer people. I said what’s queer? He said “well gay people are like adults trying to have sex with each other and queers like me and Burroughs, we’re trying to have sex with straight teenagers.” I happen to know how often he was very successful in that ambition. I think that Ginsberg and Kerouac also pointed to a truth that even this week America is wrestling with. There’s this little blonde guy who claims that this co-workers on an oil rig were harassing him sexually. One of the lower courts said “well this couldn’t be true because all these guys are heterosexual, so it must be about something else besides sex. The same lower court said it’s only harassment if the people involved in gay, because only then would sexual attraction be going on. That’s ridiculous. One of the things that both Ginsberg and Kerouac pointed to is that the human heart is very complicated. Walt Whitman said “I contradict myself, very well than I contradict myself. I am vast, I contain multitudes.” And I think that Ginsberg and Kerouac were pointing to the fact that we contain multitudes, some of our multitudes are heterosexual and some of our multitudes are homosexual and they’re all kinds of different feelings and tenderness. Going with that tenderness is more subversive than going with the idea that gay people are genetically determined and you can’t get mad at them because its genetic. It’s actually more subversive to say that we all have these different ways of relating and loving those around us, and what are we going to do with that?<br /><br />Science is still looking for a gay gene.<br /><br />Right and what are they going to do when they find it? What about all those kids that Allen slept with, did they have just a little bit of the gene? It’s easy to say that they slept with him because he’s famous, which is probably true, but they also slept with him because they loved him. The truth is ultimately more subversive than any easy take on it, even a progressive take on it, even a gay positive one. <br /><br />What about NAMBLA?<br /><br />Allen was hit with some of the hysteria over pedophilia. I talked to Allen about NAMBLA, and he didn’t know that much about it, but he defended their right to speak. To be frank, I think he had a soft part in his heart for NAMBLA, because he himself was very attracted to teenagers, so he was well aware of the pleasures and the risk of inter-generational sex. As far as I know he did not have sex with minors. I remember talking to someone about Allen not soon after he was dead. This person said “well I never liked Allen Ginsberg and I’m not sad that he’s dead.” I said, “Why’s that?” And he said, “Well he was a pedophile. One of my professors said that he supported NAMBLA.” I asked if he ever read his poetry and he said “No and I don’t want to read it.” Well that’s great, that’s like not listening to John Coltrane’s music because he was a heroin addict at one point. People are so moralistic it’s unbelievable. Or people that said that Jerry Garcia took heroin and wrestled with addiction himself. We’re all wrestling with something.<br /><br />Exactly. You can always find a reason not to listen to somebody.<br /><br />It’s more of what you can accomplish anyway despite how confusing and messed up your life is. Who doesn’t have a messed up and confusing life?<br /><br />I don’t know, I haven’t met them yet.<br /><br />And those people who pose as those kind of altruistic people are the ones who turn out to be the worst kind of motel room whore mongering drag…..<br /><br />..J. Edgar Hoover……<br /><br />I read Rock Scully’s book “life with the Dead,” and hearing about how Garcias would set hotel rooms on fire when he would nod out, didn’t make me lose love for the man. It allowed me an insight to his psychological make-up. If we all didn’t have these quirks and eccentricities, we would lose our individuality.<br /><br />I find it almost redemptive to read those stories. I’m reading through a much more in-depth biography of Jerry Garcia that’s going to be published in a year and a half by Blair Jackson, long time Dead scholar. Garcia’s relationships make even mine look relatively stable. He often had two girlfriends at once and sometimes three. He was always paying off various ex-wives and was riding a little scooter from one wife to the next. It was obvious that he was unable to make up his mind who he wanted to be with intimately and he probably had big fears of intimacy and yet was drawn into it. And as I read through it and go through my own relationship apocalypses it made me feel better. When I put on a tape now I think, “geez, this guy who’s singing and making this beautiful music, once he got off stage, had to deal with all these ex-wives and problems and all this tzuris, as they say, a great yiddish word that means hassles. And yet he was still able to create this art that had like a primordial majesty to it.” I met Garcia and he certainly was my favorite of the Dead in terms of personality. I mean the Dead are fairly egotistical and isolated guys by now. Bill Kreutzman is an unpretentious and nice guy in terms of my limited contact with him, but I never felt like they were living saints or anything like that. But for so long they were able to speak this musical language and be so articulate in it. They gave so much pleasure and so much ur-education to so many people. Its amazing that they were able to do that and still struggle through their lives as we are all doing. So one of the things about Allen was that he never tried to present himself as perfect. He always presented himself as this lusty, confused, hilariously egotistical goofball. Even though I think he had a tremendous ego, there was something redemptive, and as he might have said, Bodhisvata, about his willingness to be wounded and confused and fucked up in public. He realized that we’re not alone and the thoughts in our head don’t make us the one cursed.<br /><br />Much of the music we look back on and label as ‘revolutionary,’ is only so in hindsight. Just as so many people say, “rock is dead” today, it will take visionary thought or just the simple [passage of time to see how today’s music related to and contributed to society at large. With that in mind, do you feel the impact of the music of the Dead has yet been revealed?<br /><br />What’s hilarious and cosmic about this is that this is the second interview in twelve hours where this question has come up. I was reminded last night when the author of this Phish book asked me this question is that in the late sixties, like 69 or 70, I was reading the newspaper at my parents home. My parents were communist and the paper was published by the political organization that my father was in called Progressive Labor. It was accusing the Grateful Dead of being sellouts because they were not singing songs about the war and they were not addressing the political issues of the day. And they certainly were not (sell outs), they were singing these weird transformations of traditional American folk songs and (lyricist) Hunters psychedelic word salad. In a sense they were occupying their own little space and yet if you think back on the more topical music of the day, it’s totally tacky and did not last and was a flavor of the month. Certainly some of the more tacky stuff like “eve of destruction,” is completely forgettable. Some of the more earnest stuff like Phil Oches and whatnot is great, but it’s very much of it’s period. But if you put on the Dead playing Dark Star in 1969, damn it’s still relevant to this era. Their subversiveness was at the level of music and being open to spontaneously emerging forms in the improvistory moment. In a funny way that ends up being more subversive than coming up with some big policy statement about why the government are all pigs. You end up being a little garden where the essential free nature that is the heart of every living being gets to flourish. This is more subversive in the same way that Picasso is more subversive than some of the social realist artists of the Soviet Union. You look at Social realism and you think “oh god, this is just tacky propaganda.” You look at Picasso and there’s vitality and a untameability to his images that could practically over throw a police state. At least in your mind, for a moment when you look at Picasso you’re not living in a police state. That’s the best kind of art.<br /><br />I guess that’s the difference between being the road, a car or a bumper sticker.<br /><br />So what this guy was asking me last night, was were the Dead the voice of their generation and the answer is no. They were the voice of something deeper than that. They were the voice of a transcendent, very wild and hairy principle, like the voice of the Tao, which is the voice of every generation.<br /><br />It’s interesting how the Dead made a point of not making overt political statements on stage while at the same time there were protests and rioting going on right behind the show. <br /><br />I know that Garcia was personally asked hundreds of times by police and anti-drug organizations to make an announcement at the shows to tell the fans not to come to the shows and take drugs, and he never did. I think it’s too his credit that he wasn’t willing to take on the role of an authority in other peoples lives. And yet, it’s true that a lot of people suffered by going to jail and what not because the government was able to move in and really cut through the dead scene likes wolves through a flock of sheep. Who wants to be caseing out crack dealers, when you can go to Oakland Colesium and bust a bunch of Oberlin Students. <br /><br />The lot of the Dead couldn’t handle the weight of suddenly being the cool place to be.<br /><br />The lot was like a wildlife preserve and all of a sudden a lot animals, even those not native to that jungle, came in simply because it was one of the few places where animals could be animals. Also there was a lot of greed by people realizing that they could make some quick bucks selling nitrous or bad drugs. It’ easy to understand how it could develop that way considering the amount of hypocrisy and oppression at large in the American Culture. There was definite feeling in the early eighties that the Dead scene was a little island of sanity in the middle of the Reagan/Bush Bullshit Festival. What’s unfortunate is that after MTV featured the Day of the Dead, it became known as the biggest party going. Al these people who really didn’t care about the music showed up. I mean there was always people who didn’t care about the music. They were filtering themselves in, and then out. Once the music became irrelevant in the lot, it just became a place to: live in a barter economy, a place to not get a job, a place to have a lot of sex, and make some money, and stay high constantly. It became too much of a refuge, I think. A little bit of all that is great, but it really became a bunch of people who weren’t dealing with the outside world much. The thing about the Dead scene that I really miss, is that it was a litmus test and a easy way to see where people were coming from. There were many times I would be in some small town, or on the road, and I would look, and it wasn’t even so blatant as Dead patches on a knapsack or stinking orf Patchouli oil, even if they were dressed in straight clothes, there would be just a look in their eyes and I would say “do you go to shows?” And if they said “what kind of shows?,” you knew you made a mistake. So often you hit though, and it was an instant, if not shallow, brotherhood and sisterhood with other people you might have seen at a show at that moment you were having a revelation. I not only miss it, I think that my life is suffering form the lack of that, and from the lack of having a place to remagnetize the compass needle of my spirit. I’m doing fine with my adult life, like keeping a job and all that. But in terms of the heartfullness and confidence that I need, it’s not as easy to feel at home in the world without occasional visits to Deadland.<br /><br />I just figure I’ll never dance again.<br /><br />I know, I’ve put on weight since Jerry died because I don’t dance as much. I feel like I’ve aged twenty years since 1995. I think that the problem with the size and scale of the Dead scene in later years was too centralized and the litter had become too big and there are only so many teats. I do think there has been an upsurge in more local and smaller jamming bands, who take some of the lessons of the Grateful Dead. Although it’s a little too easy too play that way. But local hippie scenes are getting more attention from people, because they have too. They just can’t hitch a ride to Deer Creek and immerse themselves in their own scene, because that place no longer exists. Every Deadheads hometown disappeared like Pompeii under the volcano. Everyone has to find the scene that’s local to them. That having been said, I’m on Phish tour. <br /><br />Jumping Ship?<br /><br />No, I love Phish and have since 1992. I don’t feel like it’s jumping ship, I feel like it’s a different ship and it’s floating very well thank you. Phish are doing great things in their own groove. Seeing Phish now is like seeing the Dead in 1973 because their music is so focused and so tight that they can go anywhere with it. It’s a very exciting time to be into Phish and I’m not there because it’s a substitute, I’m there because it’s good music.<br /><br />I tend to be a snob sometimes.<br /><br />I remember I ran into someone who saw the Deads last 650 shows, at a Phish show, 6 months after Jerry died and he said “Owww, it’s like the Stepford show! It’s the same people, the same clothes, different band!!” I mean, sure a lot of the cultural forms have been appropriated, but that’s not the point. The point is the music and point is getting off, and the point is psychedelic experience whether you’re tripping or not, and the point is being free for a moment and listening to the spontaneous risky inventions of a bunch of geniuses that are very hooked into one another. So wherever you can find that you should do it, whether it’s at Phish or your own local bar or your own room.DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-68083455116666381392009-01-29T10:11:00.000-08:002009-08-08T23:30:26.568-07:00Interview with Bill KreutzmannInterview with Bill Kreutzman—BK3 (Egyptian Windmill Operators)<br /><br />I’ve been pretty lucky in my journalistic career to interview many of my heroes: Timothy Leary, Mickey Hart, Ken Kesey, Robert Anton Wilson, Bob Weir, Paul Kanter, Jorma and the list goes on. But it was a real joy to spend a while chatting with Bill Kreutzmann of the Grateful Dead. The focus was on his new band, BK3 (aka Egyptian Windmill Operators) but the ease of the conversation steered us off-course to tales of Hawaii, Obama, and Bette Midler. Like the coolest guy you would ever want to share a brew with, Bill filled the conversation with laughter, positivity and hopeful looks at the future. Eventually I will write a more complete introduction, but in the kindtime, enjoy this transcription of what was one of my favorite talks in a long time----ladies and gentlemen—drumroll please—Bill Kreutzmann!<br /><br /><br /><br />Bill Kreutzmann---Y’ello.<br /><br />DNA: Hi, This is DNA calling from Santa Cruz.<br /><br />BK: DNA. How do you pronounce that?<br /><br />DNA: You just did my friend. You also spelled it, so you’re ahead of the game.<br /><br />BK: Right on. How is Santa Cruz treating you?<br /><br />DNA: Great. I’m looking at the ocean right now, people are playing volleyball, the sea lions are out, the sun is breaking on through. <br /><br />BK: Right on, right on. You’ve given me the warmest phone call yet. I did two interviews prior to yours and they’re both freezing out there in Boulder. I’m sitting here in 80 degrees Hawaii weather.<br /><br />DNA: I lived in Maui for several months. What a magical experience.<br /><br />BK: That’s why I’m here.<br /><br />DNA: You got yourself an ocean view?<br /><br />BK: I don’t have an ocean view, but I have a hidden garden which is wear I keep my beautiful flowering plants. That’s my hobby here--growing tropical flowers. Pikaki is used for leis and is the smelliest (that may not be the proper word) in Hawaii.<br /><br />DNA: Do you still run your organic farm, Grateful Greens?<br /><br />BK: No, I stopped that. It operated for a while, but then I had to move back to the mainland for several years to do Grateful Dead projects and the farm was loaned out to somebody. But I’m back! I couldn’t stay away. I couldn’t find the happiness in Marin that I find here in Hawaii. <br /><br />DNA: Next time you have to move to the mainland, try Santa Cruz--it’s not too shabby. <br /><br />BK: I agree with you. Right now my step-daughter is attending Cabrillo College and then will be transferring the University down there. <br /><br />DNA: Cabrillo is a great college. There are excellent people that attend there. Ya know, all your archives are stored here in Santa Cruz, at UCSC.<br /><br />BK: I knew that! I was instrumental in having that happen. UCSC offered us such a deal. They even offered us a room dedicated to the archives. Pretty cool.<br /><br />DNA: Although I don’t have much knowledge about archival goings-on, I volunteered to help. On my resume I said that I could pick out Jerry Garcia’s underwear out of a pile of laundry. They didn’t respond.<br /><br />BK: That was a good line though.<br /><br />DNA: I do stand-up comedy. Sometimes it works--sometimes it fails miserably.<br /><br />BK: Ah well, that’s life. The thing, DNA, that I really want to talk about is the trio that I have coming your way soon. <br /><br />DNA: Really exciting man. I’ve seen Oteil Burbridge play with the Aquarium Rescue Unit and besides the Allman Brothers, he’s sat in with God Street Wine. I used to go see Scott Murawski play with Max Creek all the time.<br /><br />BK: Put me in the mix and you know what the bands like. It’s the best band I’ve played in since the Grateful Dead days. <br /><br />DNA: I listened to a couple of tracks on your Myspace page. It’s great. Do you see this trio staying together for a while beyond this tour?<br /><br />BK: I would sure like that. I would like to just keep doing it. As a matter of fact, the three of us just talked yesterday—but we live so far apart. Oteil lives in Alabama and Scott lives up near Providence, Rhode Island and I live in Kauai. So we have a lot of conference calls—it’s the best way to do it. They are all into it--I can tell they are really excited. I think for Oteil, and I don’t think he will mind me saying this—he’s played with the Allman Brothers so much that he has it down in his back pocket—that its fun for him to be in a band where he can be totally open and free. I encourage that with my players. I don’t have rules. I believe in what John Coltrane once said, “Damn the rules.”<br /><br />DNA: “Damn the rules. It’s the feeling that counts.”<br /><br />BK: And that’s the same for my trio, or any band I play with. That’s where I coming from. I’m not sitting there thinking the music should do this or do that. I let the music talk to me, rather than imposing my own stuff. <br /><br />DNA: What a difference to play small clubs where you can see the whole room, as opposed to Madison Square Garden.<br /><br />BK: I like both you know? But the small club thing actually taught me to hear better. I learned to play softer. I have a jam garage here and it’s the hottest jam garage in the world. Not temperature-wise, it just sounds good. I provide a bass amp and a guitar amp and I have a Noble and Cooley drum set in the back. We’ll play for hours and sometimes the cops will come about 11:30. “That’s enough boys.” They know me by now. They don’t get too pissed off because the music is real good. <br /><br />DNA: Are you still having trouble naming the band?<br /><br />BK: It’s the BK3.<br /><br />DNA: Oh! BK3!!<br /><br />BK: I didn’t like the word trio, and I have no problem with jazz, but it reminded me of a jazz band. I’d rather be BK3--my initials and 3. That’s the official name. The other name we tried to use but my manager talked me out of it—The Egyptian Windmill Operaters. That’s our name—Egyptian Windmill Operators. It doesn’t have to make sense. Like Aquarium Rescue Unit. She said, “You oughta use your initials.” If you could call us BK3(Egyptian Windmill Operators), I would dig that. See, I’m a little comedian too.<br /><br />DNA: I always thought you were the funniest guy in the band.<br /><br />BK: I don’t know how to take that. ( silence followed by laughter)<br /><br />DNA: You pulled out of being somewhat reclusive from the Dead scene to do this Obama gig. Was it Obama that pulled all of you together?<br /><br />BK: Well yeah. It was really him. I missed the first show those guys did for him.<br /><br />DNA: At the Warfield.<br /><br />BK: Bob wanted me to make it. But I had just flown in from Costa Rico for hours, and the gig was the next day, and it was more than I could do. It went real well for them. Bobby said we could get something together at Penn State and he was like, “Let’s do it.”<br />I met with Bobby and said, “Well if we’re going to all this trouble to get together for Penn State, let’s get together and do a tour.” And everybody said yes to it. It was kinda my idea, I guess. If you’re going to all this trouble for one gig, why not tour? <br /><br />DNA: So it’s a show-by-show thing, no future plans, take this tour and see what happens?<br /><br />BK: Yup. We’re going to practice for 20 days before we hit the road. 20 rehearsal day. Some of those are set-up days. It’s going to different. We don’t want to structure it the way we used to—ya know, four or five years ago—we want to change it up and make it better. I want to talk about that, but I really want to talk about the trio. People who like the Dead will really like BK3. <br /><br />DNA: You guys play a bunch of Dead tunes. <br /><br />BK: Not a bunch. We do some really nice covers like “Rhymes” by Al Green, as well as, original songs by both Oteil and Scott. I totally encourage that. Everyone is doing tons of Dead stuff, and it’s a great book to play from, no doubt about it, so that’s being covered. In our band we will certainly do our fair share, but Hunter wrote us 12 original songs. And we’ve played 8 or 10 of them so far. They’re way cool songs.<br /><br />DNA: How’s Hunter doing?<br /><br />BK: His writing is incredible. I have a phone call when we are done one to Mickey, and one to Bob. I need to send him a DVD of BK3 from the Culture Room (Ft. Lauderdale, FL.). It will blow his mind. He should be quite happy. If I was him I would be quite happy.<br /><br />DNA: I look forward to hearing those new tunes played out. Mike Gordon (bass player for Phish) helped curate this band?<br /><br />BK: We call him the curator. We started over a year ago when Mike invited us down to do a benefit gig down in Costa Rico in a town called Jaco. It’s a surf town about halfway down the coast. The benefit was for the school system and we stayed at Mike’s dad’s house. To cut to the chase, Scott was the guitar player, and about two songs in I knew I had a player on my hands that could go anywhere--we played maybe 5 hours that night, we got really into it. People loved it and we got to give money to the school system, which was the most important thing. The next day I said, “Mike I had a really good time last night, let’s do this more.” He said, “Bill, I’ll do it whenever I can but I’ve got my own band.” I thought to myself what am I going to do, sit at home and audition bass players? I said, “Mike I want somebody who is the best at their instrument and who knows me.” And Mike said, “Lets call Oteil.” Oteil said OK and that’s why we call Mike the curator. We all are having the best time, I just love it!<br /><br />DNA: Oteil is just a monster bass player, t takes it so many places.<br /><br />BK: Well they got a drummer who likes to take it many places too. He’s having a lot of fun and Scotts the same way. Scott feels the same way as far as freedom and imagination, he doesn’t play the same thing twice in a row. He takes solos and you think he’s done and he’s only halfway through. He’s building and building and building and doing all these tonal changes and it’s really good music. They trade off all these licks and lines and sides of solos, which is really fun, or they’ll play in unison or harmony parts on the same line and I’m back there laughing. I can’t believe what I’m hearing. I know the Deadheads in Santa Cruz, or anyone that loves good electric music will enjoy it. I don’t like to use the word jazz, I like to say free music. It’s not traditional music, if anything it’s close to fusion. Ya know DNA, I love your name, I heard this one track, and I said, “What band is that?” And my girlfriend Amy said, “You nut, that’s you!” She had put on some of the CDs I had lying around the house and I thought I was listening to some fusion band. I was like, “Fuck, that’s us?” That’s’ how happy I am with this band. Onstage they crowd around my bass drum and you have three guys laughing their brains out while their playing. It’s sort of Bluegrassish in this way. We play real close and play tight music.<br /><br />DNA: You’re kicking off the tour in Santa Cruz, cannot wait! You said that you will rehearse with the Dead for 20 days, will you have anytime to practice with BK3?<br />BK: We won’t have time. Maybe we’ll get in there that afternoon and play a few songs, but that’s how it goes with the trio, we don’t really need to rehearse. I’m not reallt sure how that sounds to you. . .<br /><br />DNA: You guys are all consummate professionals. . .<br /><br />BK: We’ve all played for years. You’re the first interviewer whose known both Scott and Oteil, most people don’t know either, and if anyone gets known it’s Oteil and me. But I’m glad you know Scott, he’s an amazing guitar player. And their voices are great as well and they complement each other. Scott has kinda of a raspy voice and Oteil has kind of a pretty gospel voice, nice contrast of tones. <br /><br />DNA: I grew up on the East Coast we would go see Max Creek, waiting for the Dead to return. It was cold and we had to stay warm.<br /><br />BK: I don’t feel like I’m the leader of the band. I like for everyone to be the leader. It’s sorta Obamaish. He said, “I’m your leader, but you all got take a hand in this thing.” That’s how we do it. I don’t tell them what to do, I say, “Here are some ideas, what do you think?”<br /><br />DNA: Do you have a set list before you start?<br /><br />BK: We call up a few songs. We have a master list sitting out there and think which key might fit with the next song, tempo or feeling. We don’t have to have a set list at all. One night I got up there at Toads in Connecticut and played a 1/2 hour drum solo before those guys came out and joined me. I brought down a good hard beat and started jamming on the beat and made up another song and played it for an hour and a 1/2 and then started a song off the list. We went into Eyes of the World—it was the biggest meltdown! It’s great to see the audience having that much fun—very reminiscent. Now that Obama is president, I feel better.<br /><br />DNA: The world is just as crazy, but it’s nice to have a guy at the helm that you don’t hate.<br /><br />BK: I was in Washington for the inaugeration to play with the band. I was watching television in my hotel room—there was two million people a 1/2 a mile away, I decided, well, my hotel room is safe—so I was watching the swearing in on TV. There’s the old tradition of the president getting in the helicopter and flying away—and I heard a helicopter outside my window, I grabbed Amy and we went to the window and it was Bush flying away—so we gave him a big wave. Good riddance, man. <br /><br />DNA: 8 years of lunacy.<br /><br />BK: It felt much longer than 8 years. <br /><br />DNA: Well there was his Dad as well. I just heard they’re talking about Jeb in 2012. It’s way to early to hear stuff like that. Too soon, too soon.<br /><br />BK: How about Palin?<br /><br />DNA: Drill Baby Drill.<br /><br />BK: Let’s shoot wolves from helicopters. <br /><br />DNA: She gave a lot of fodder to comedians.<br /><br />BK: Didn’t do her any good. When McCain chose her I thought he did it because he didn’t really want to be president. I doubt that was his thought but it appeared that way. <br /><br />DNA: He couldn’t have made a goofier choice. <br /><br />BK: I know. Thank god. <br /><br />DNA: Had a question about Hawaii. You guys passed the Lowest Law Enforcement Priority of Cannabis Ordinance, but your police chief recently said that, “anyone who is pro-marijuana is automatically pro-terrorist.”<br /><br />BK: Blame it on being slow-minded and uninformed. Hawaii is very backward when it comes to things that are fun like marijuana and dancing. The caberet laws are in effect. There are no places on this island where you can go and dance. You can go out and sit-down, but you can’t dance. There has been a ton of corruption politically and it’s the good-old-boy syndrome—which is another word for gangster. The way I deal with it is by living my life in the best way, trying to be an example to other people. There was a guy here, Andrew Kluger, who built a dam that broke 2.5 years ago and killed several people. . .<br /><br />http://archives.starbulletin.com/2006/03/15/news/story01.html<br /><br />. . .and the corruption goes all the way up to the Governor. They never inspected the dams, they knew one was leaking and it finally broke. It was 400 million gallons of water, it carved a miniature Grand Canyon—took out the property across from me, which is Better Midlers property. I got the least damage from it, but I lost all my Ag water, so I couldn’t water all my beautiful flowers, and they died. The city water has too much chlorine in it and it’s also very expensive. What I’m saying is that for such a beautiful place it’s amazingly backward. <br /><br />DNA: To go indirectly back to the Dead for a second. I lived in Maui but realized that to fight the good fight and make a difference I needed to move back to Turtle Island. And I gotta say that it was through touring with you guys for 500 shows that I realized it was through being an activist and community action that you could really help those around you.<br />BK: You’ve got a good heart. I’ll tell ya, the cops here are just really mean, unduly mean. They take pride in being bullies. <br /><br />DNA: Well play it safe with that garage of yours. <br /><br />BK: I don’t do anything that they could get too down on me for. Last Friday night it was a lady cop that came to shut us down. She was very polite and she said, “Wow, that sounds really good, but it’s 11:30 and we’ve been getting complaints.”<br /><br />DNA: Was it Bette Midler that called the cops?<br /><br />BK: No..no..Just saying that Hawaii is Obama land, but their policies are not like Obama. <br /><br />DNA: Corruption runs deep. Look at Blagojevich.<br /><br />BK: I cannot believe that he is still in the news.<br /><br />DNA: Hey you screw up at work really bad and it takes balls to keep showing up.<br /><br />BK: Yup. After the inauguration we played that night. The next night, thanks to Mickey Hart, I got invited to a Power Party. Nancy Pelosi was there, Barbara Boxer was there, Harry Reid was there, Diane Feinstein was there—all the heavys. That asked us a lot of questions and I always promote Green. I pleaded to build solar panel factories, obvious stuff. Let’s take all those Mercedes store in Long Beach that cannot be sold and put electric motors in those son-of-bitches. I was running all this stuff down and the vibe was really optimistic. Those folks didn’t like working for Bush and there was joy I the air and that made me feel better about our country. I wasn’t too happy with Bush and I know you haven’t. <br /><br />DNA: It’s hip to talk Green, but when is somebody going to thank the hippies for thinking of it all.<br /><br />BK: we never get thanked, but as long as they take action that will be enough.<br /><br />DNA: Thanks a lot for the talk Bill. If you ever need a stand-up comedian to open for you guys. . .<br /><br />BK: You can call me every morning to make me laugh.<br /><br />DNA: It’s on. Expect a call tomorrow at 6am. <br /><br />BK: Come find me in Santa Cruz I have a story about John Belushi I want to tell you.<br /><br />DNA: OK. <br /><br />BK: How did you get the name DNA?<br />DNA: In 1990 I was backstage for a Showtime comedy contest. I was backstage, high on acid, freaking out that I didn’t have anything funny to say. And then I remembered that my initials were DNA—which is funny.<br /><br />BK: Perfect.<br /><br />DNA: One last thing. The only interaction we ever had in the past. . .<br /><br />BK: Uh oh.<br /><br />DNA: In 1986 I was at a Bill Graham private party at the Fillmore. John Lee Hooker was there, Huey Lewis, The Charlatans were playing onstage, it was insane. Everyone knew each other, except for me. I was like an orphan at a family reunion.<br /><br />BK: Orphan!<br /><br />DNA: I was standing next to the dance floor, where a bunch of high-class ladies were shaking it. And you pushed me into the dance floor and said, “Get in there and dance young man!” <br /><br />BK: Great story, I’m not usually that pushy!<br /><br />DNA: Alright, see you in Santa Cruz. Aloha.<br /><br />BK: Aloha!DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-16557518663744324922008-11-03T14:44:00.001-08:002012-08-21T20:14:45.536-07:00Interview with Zecheria SitchenThe Return of the Cosmic Farmers<br />
By DNA<br />
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My Dad never really let loose with his thoughts. Every now and then he would launch a bauble of a parable that would either anger or confuse, but very rarely enlighten. It was him I credit with such beaut’s as: “In every women there can be one good thing, your penis,” and “Life is a burning candle, when you die, the flame goes out,” and “always work for yourself, you set your own hours and you’re never late” and “Never trust anyone, including me!” One time though he gave me a gem, a gem that I still contemplate today: “There are only three things that are worth thinking about, where do we come from, where are we now, and where are we going?”<br />
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Those three questions have become my measuring stick for seeing the relevancy of what I do. In fact, these lines of reasoning have guided me throughout my adult life. With that in mind, witness the amazing tale of the Sumerian’s as told by Zecheria Sitchen.<br />
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To date, Sitchin has deciphered more then 2,000 clay cylinders from that ancient land on the Persian Gulf that existed some 6,000 years ago. Some of these fragments, which date to 4,000 B.C., are in museums around the world.<br />
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One fragment in particular, presently in Germany, indicates that Earth is the seventh planet, counting in from Pluto. The time frame here is four millennia before modern astronomy confirmed the existence of Pluto as an actual planet in our solar system.<br />
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So how did an ancient race of people know this fact? Sitchin says it is because these ancient people did not come from Earth, but from Nibiru, the Twelfth planet. Zecharia Sitchin - whose work challenges everything we thought we knew about human civilization, is considered by many to be the greatest historian of all time. Sitchin is one of a small number of orientalists who can read the Sumerian clay tablets, which trace Earth’s, and human events to the earliest times. He has a profound knowledge of modern and ancient Hebrew and of other Semitic and European languages, the Old Testament and the history and archaeology of the Near East. His Earth Chronicles series of books (in 13 languages) combine advances in modern science with textual and pictorial evidence from the past to form a cohesive and fact-based story of what had really happened on our planet in the past 450,000 years. His mind-stretching cosmology is a preparation for the return of the Nibiruans, our creators, who, he says, will be returning soon. Although incredible, this body-of-work appears unchallenged academically.<br />
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It pays to read his books if you have a interest in the parallels that occur between all the world religions. The name of the Gods in antiquity holds clues and solutions to today’s problems. So let’s get out the lawn chairs and look up at the skies as DNA takes us one step beyond and a little past that…………<br />
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DNA<br />
The Sumerians seem to be the base for the ideas of Evolution and Creationism. What is their tale?<br />
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Sitchen<br />
You must distinguish between the Sumerians, who were peole like us except what they knew, what they witnessed and what they wrote down on clay tablets, took place 5 or 6000 years ago Besides the gap in years, they were people like us, humans. Distinguish between them and the so-called gods who were their teachers and gave them the knowledge. <br />
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So when the Sumerians said there are so many planets in our solar system, and the sun was at the center, and that Uranus looked green, etc., it was not their own acquired knowledge, it was what they were told.<br />
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They were told by the Anunnaki, which means ‘those which from heaven to Earth came down.’ So according to the Sumerian records, about 450,000 years ago, the Anunnaki came to Earth and started travelling between our planet and their planet. They named their home planet Nibiru, which comes to our vicinity every 3600 years. <br />
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So one of the questions I asked myself before I even started the books, was where is the planet, what are they talking about? I found out that at the turn of this century, scholars who were both astronomers and who had read those tablets, were arguing among themselves. Some said Nibiru was another name for the planet that we call Jupiter, because there was a text that said there was a conjunction, there was this, there was that. Another group said it couldn’t be Jupiter because there was another text that disagreed and said that it had to be Mars. The assumption of these scholars was that when they read names of planets in the Sumerian tablets, that they are always talking about the seven known celestial bodies which were the Sun and the moon and the five planets, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. The human eye cannot discern planets beyond that. Uranus, Neptune and Pluto were only discovered with the aid of telescopes and the aid of other advanced instruments. <br />
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So whenever there was names of more than those seven, including Nibiru, the scholars assumed that were duplicate names for those seven known celestial bodies. Nobody ever mentioned that the ancient people might know more than them. One day I found an actual depiction on one of the cylinders, of the solar system with the sun, not the earth, at the center, surrounded by eleven celestial bodies. I learned to read the texts for myself and they kept saying that the number of the family of planets, including the Sun and the moon, was twelve. Now, with the aid of telescopes we know the number of planets is nine, with the farthest out being Pluto. So with the Sun and moon, the number is eleven, there is one missing, the twelfth member. The depictions show a twelfth planet. The title of my first book was shortened from The Planet which is the Twelfth Member, to The Twelfth Planet. That was twenty years ago. The planet is also known as Planet X and its symbol is the cross.<br />
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Planet X was this other planet which invaded our solar system billions of years ago. It was captured in the gravitational pull of our Sun, and now it orbits between Mars and Jupiter. That planet is Nibiru. All this information about Nibriu’s travel into our Solar System, it’s capture, it’s collision and other things that explain many things, such as the asteroid belt, it’s 3600 year rotation, was not knowledge acquired by the Sumerians on their own. They had no telescopes. It was knowledge given to them by people who shared some of their knowledge every 3600 years. <br />
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They were capable of space travel half a million years ago and they had as much knowledge as we do today. When they came here 450,000 years ago, we did not exist yet, there were only hominids. The Sumerian text and the Book of Genesis, which is based on the Sumerian text, acknowledge and recognize evolution. Homo Sapiens did not exist, Modern man was not here, there were only ape-men and women, if you like. The Sumerian text says that when the Annunaki came here that they needed workers,man power, and through genetic engineering combined their genes with the hominids. That was 300,000 years ago, which scientific studies suggest is when our species, Homo Sapiens, first appeared. They jumped the gun on evolution and brought us half a million, a million, I don’t know, years ahead. Evolution would have brought us around anyway, but not as fast as they could have through genetic engineering.<br />
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DNA<br />
Is the Annunaki DNA based also?<br />
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Sitchen<br />
DNA plays a major role in this whole thing. There are literally tens of thousands of Sumerian tablets, which is the written records of the Sumerian, and it is immense. The Egyptian text’s that were left behind are meager compared to the Sumerian. What I tell people is that if they follow the daily news, through the papers, or the internet or whatever, then follow all the recent discoveries in space and in Astronomy, such as the discovery of other solar systems with planets around it, the possibility of long term orbits which confirm the possibility of a 3600 year orbit, they will find that all the Sumerian cosmology is being corroborated on a weekly basis. At the same time, all that we are finding out about DNA, about genetics, about chromosomes, all that we are finding corroborates the detailed Sumerian text that speaks of how the genetic engineering took place. The texts are very specific. But I am not an Astronomer or a Microbiologist, if we were to get those people to study the texts they would really be ahead of the game. <br />
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Everything I say is directly from the texts that are in museums all over the world. I do not make any of it up. So when I say what I say, is it so? Well yes, there is a text that exists, and it does say what I say it says.<br />
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Many scholars like to say that it’s all a myth, it never happened. Like I said, the Sumerians make it clear that in the tablets it is not them speaking, it is what the Gods told them and they dictated it down. If this were to be treated not as myth, but as actual knowledge that was handed down to us over hundreds of thousands of years, imagine how much sickness we could get rid of and how much healing we could obtain. This is the point I wish to make. People say to me, “OK so the Sumerians knew that Uranus was blue-green and that Mars had water on it, what does it mean to me.?” What it means is that if the texts were treated as actual knowledge and not as mythology we could have the clues to a better life, a better health and a better understanding of where we are from, and therefore a better understanding of where we are going.<br />
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DNA<br />
I studied the Epic of Gilgamesh in college and the parallels between it and the stories in the Bible struck me. It was amazing to see that the same stories were being told thousand of years before Genesis was written. <br />
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Sitchen<br />
Well many Priests and Rabbi’s speak favorably about my books. The Vatican is very well aware of the truth. A year ago the Pope said he “doesn’t say there are no UFO’s.” He put it in a double negative.<br />
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DNA<br />
How does the recent excitement over Aliens and UFO’s play into the return of this Twelfth planet?<br />
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Sitchen<br />
I don’t see any other explanation of all these reported phenomena except to say that the cycle is returning.<br />
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DNA<br />
So you could say that our creators are returning.<br />
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Sitchen<br />
Yes you could say that. It’s a nice way of saying it. It’s irresponsible though to give dates. I would rather talk in generalities.<br />
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DNA<br />
What about the idea of Panspermia; the theory that our planet was seeded with DNA?<br />
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Sitchen<br />
That’s a Sumerian tale. Nibiru brought life into our solar system. But in Panspermia, life was brought to our planet by comet and the Sumerians said not by comet, but by another planet.<br />
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DNA<br />
It’s interesting that we are almost at the point where we have the technology to go to other planets and seed them with DNA, it’s gone full circle.<br />
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Sitchen<br />
We’re not there yet, but we’re getting there. I have no doubt that we are destined to repeat what was done to us on our planet, to others, on other planets. I think that we are part of the celestial cycle. We are not just here alone on this speck of dust we call Earth, we are part of an on going cosmic drama, and we will play our role in it. <br />
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DNA<br />
Well kids, I’m just blowing off steam here, but could it be that another planet will be entering our skies in our lifetimes? Will this planet really harbor our creators? Could it be that Sitchens translations are accurate? What if they are? What would this mean to you? I leave with you with this tale that Sitchen likes to tell…..<br />
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“Two travelers were going from one town to another and they reached a crossroads, they saw that the poles indicating the directions of the way to the town had fallen to the ground. One of them said, “Uh oh, we’re in trouble, now we won’t know which way to the town.” The other traveler said, “No, don’t worry about it.” He took the sign and stood it straight so that the one sign that had the name of the town that they came from was pointing in the right direction. And in this way they were able to know which way they were going. So you see, in order to know where you are going, you have to know where you came from.”DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-25428240829500063502008-11-03T12:43:00.000-08:002012-08-21T20:16:34.078-07:00Interview with Bruce David(Originally published in my rag HUMP somewhere in the 90s)<br />
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Guys, how many times have you been looking at magazines at Tower when you hear the uneven breath of a pasty faced pudge ball next to you? You look up and see that a fifty year old yupster is gawking at the newest issue of Big Booty as he unhurriedly looks for his car keys in his pocket. “You freaking pervert,” you think to yourself. You remind yourself “I am above that cretin. I do not feel the need for pornography. I do not need to look at naked pictures of women showing me their vulvas.” Suurrrrreee!!!<br />
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This month I achieved one of my life goals. I got my picture in a porno mag. Yup, in the November issue of Rage, a Larry Flynt publication, you can find my ugly mug on the contributors page. Perhaps it’s the DNA kiss of death, or perhaps it’s other factors, but the day the new Rage cam out, I got word from editor Bruce David that Rage had ceased publictation. <br />
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David sees it this way; “Larry Flynt had us do up promotional material which suggested the magazine was going to be soft. When the first issue hit the stands with a girl jamming a gun in her twat, retailers and distributors freaked. Many sent the book back unopened. 75% of all future issues were polly bagged, which meant you couldn't see our covers or coverlines. Nor could you peek inside. But then we could no longer get on most newsstands anyway and the ones we did get on placed us with titles like Cheap Sluts and Hot Hotties, so we missed our demographic.<br />
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Regarding ads: we had no ad force. The only reason we got any "straight" advertising is because a girl in the production department took it on her own to call the skateboard companies and such. It was hard selling them, though, when no one could find the mag on the newsstands. Compounding that, most legitimate advertisers won't advertise in a mag with dicks in it. That's what happened as I see it. Others might see it differently.”<br />
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In any case, being printed in Rage was definitely a highlight for me. The magazine was the toast of the underground as it combined interviews with White Zombie, Social Distortion, Korn, Tool and Motley Crue with interviews with Cyber genuises. Rage also included strong anti-corporate pieces and a strong tendency for humor. But what would you expect from a guy who ran Andy Warhols Interview magazine, Larry Flynts Hustler and wrote ALF’s famous lines.<br />
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Spread ‘em and HUMP as we look inside Bruce David’s mind……………………<br />
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David- You sent me some girl copy and it was about monkeys and I got confused. What was that about?<br />
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HUMP- It was from a book that was published in 1951 called Monkeys as Pets.<br />
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David- Was it a book that seriously dealt with the issues of monkeys as pets?<br />
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HUMP- Yeah it was a complete monkey manuel, their habits, training and care. I just thought it was funny.<br />
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David- Did you change the text at all?<br />
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HUMP- I changed the sex of the monkey from him to her.<br />
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David- I’m concerned about copyright, but people who wrote a book about monkeys forty years ago could all be presumably dead. So what’s with this new publication of yours.<br />
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HUMP- Well the conservative periodocals are on the rise in Chico and I’m getting pretty sick hearing about the great legacy of Ronald Reagan.<br />
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David- Oh it’s terrible, it’s all a nightmare. I keep asking myself how we got here. The situation is so absolutely perverse that I walk around saying “this is all wrong.” I’m a little older so I’ve witnessed the progression of at least my time-span. You know we al grew up just accepting this stuff and the younger generation gets stuck believing even more of it. Things seem like they always been the way they are, so it’s hard to even question it.<br />
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HUMP- I figure the least I can do is give a differing voice.<br />
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David- Well I don’t know if you get The Nation, but it’s a great source of information. But the latest is that the Chrysler Corporation has sent out notices to all the magazines and newspapers that they advertise with. They request they get to see any advance articles that mention the Chrysler company, either negatively or positively. If the magazines don’t give them an advance look, so they can obviously censor it, they will pull their advertising. And, they may no apologies about it. Although the news didn’t cover it, when questioned about it Chrysler said “hey we’re just doing out front what everyone else is doing under the table.”<br />
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HUMP- Even smaller publications have to bow to their advertisers. My goal with HUMP is to have an agreement with my advertisers that we reserve the right to say whatever we please. So.. did you have a hand in the Larry Flynt movie? Were you a consultant?<br />
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David- Actually my participation was to have my lawyers send Oliver Stone a cease and desist letter, threatening litigation if I was portrayed in any manner whatsoever. So the character would have been me was Arlo. You’ll notice there was no mention as to what his Job category was, or his history. In the original draft he was clearly named the editor and was given some bogus history that had nothing to do with my life. That just bothered me right from the start. That was even before they added the twitchy eye.<br />
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HUMP- Did you go to see the final product?<br />
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David- Of course. I was at the West Coast premier. It was totally accurate. Everything that happened in the movie according to my own personal knowledge actually happened. My quibbles with the movie were more deeply personal, like the fact that I didn’t have a twitchy eye. I saw myself in a much more glorius role in the day to day success of Hustler Magazine. I brought a lot of talented writers into the pages of Hustler. But quibbles is all they are. The movie was about Larry’s life not mine. If I ever get the opportunity to make a movie, then I’ll be the hero.<br />
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HUMP- When they showed the Larry Flynt building, is that the real building.<br />
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David- Yeah, it’s where I’m sitting right now. It’s like a massive boat on Wilshire Boulevard. It’s literally shaped like a boat. Of course it’s not the building that Larry and I first worked in when we moved Hustler to Los Angeles. At that time we were in the twin towers. To toot my own horn a little bit, I was working in New York as a journalist and the founding art director of Interview magazine, Andy Warhol’s Interview magazine. I was writing for publications like Screw and Penthouse and I was producing a TV show that still runs on cable called Midnight Blue. Larry appeared on the TV show, but before that I had written a review of Hustler in the pages of Screw in which I said that “Hustler has just edged out Refrigerator Monthly as the most boring magazine in America.” Larry read the review and agreed with me and offered me the managing editor position. The masthead was Larry, Althea and then me.<br />
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HUMP- Have you ever had any qualms about getting into the industry that you’re in?<br />
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David- Well you know that I always saw myself working at the New York Times, but the New York Times didn’t share my vision. I came up through the underground press, which means I had one foot in pornography to start with. First of all it was never an issue with me, secondly I was excited by the idea. When my sister and I had just graduated from college, she asked me what I would like to do with my life, and basically because I’m a shallow person, I said “ultimately I’d like to be the editor at Playboy magazine. But when Hustler came along, I saw that it had a lot of potential and when he offered me the job, I jumped at it. I could see that Larry was pushing the envelope but that he needed someone like me who knew how to write and knew how to get writers. It still annoys me to this day that people still make such an issue out of sex.<br />
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HUMP Did you ever wish that you went mainstream when Larry would end up in jail and before the Supreme Court?<br />
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David- Well it was very exciting. When I got out of college, I was young and naïve and I’m sure I entertained some vain glorious ideas about the Times. It didn’t take long to realize what a conservative environment that would be and that I wouldn’t fit into an environment like that. It would give me no comfort level because that’s not the kind of person that I am. <br />
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HUMP- With Rage, are you shooting for a new demographic?<br />
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David- Well even more than that we are trying to redefine what men’s publishing is all about. We tried to get rid of all the predictability of Playboy and Penthouse. Those magazines are so staid in their layout and their text. Mike Salisbury who is the designer of Rage, is the guy who created Joe Camel and the logo for Jurassic Park and about a 100 american icons that you would recognize immediately. When we sat down to talk about Rage, we wanted to change everything from the way it’s photographed, to the way it’s designed, to the way it’s written, to the type of things that are addressed in the pages of the magazine.<br />
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HUMP- What made you revert to the Adult advertising in the back?<br />
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David- Well, we’ve been under pressure from the beginning to take the ads for the 900 numbers. Larry Flynt was great about not forcing the issue. But there comes a time when you’re still in the red where you have to make the decision about breaking even on all the money that was put into the magazine. <br />
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HUMP- Rage features the leading technicians and cyber-gurus who will be affecting the future of our county and culture, do you have a Rage Web site?<br />
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David- That’s really embarrassing, next question please.<br />
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HUMP- Rage is very anti-capitalism.<br />
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David- Yes. We are very anti-corporate. Capitalism didn’t just kill Communism it has killed Democracy in the process. Just the fact that Westinghouse and General Electric own NBC and CBS is frightening. I mean along with all the other nefarious things that they are up too, their shooting plutonium into space. If there’s a mishap on the launch pad, we can all wave goodbye to Florida. Of course, if it blows up in the atmosphere, that’s the end of 5 billion people. It’s obvious NBC and CBS are not going to deal with this issue on their newscasts, they have no motivation to get people inflamed with the sheer madness of it. In essence the American people are being lied to. <br />
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HUMP- You got involved with Hustler in 1975. Did it seem that the lines were more easily defined between the counter-culture and society at large then they are today?<br />
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David- I don’t think that the lines are mixed today at all, it’s all so clear. To simplify things, to distill it down to its most basic form: corporations are evil. Multi-national corporations have seized control of our government. They have bought and paid for all our politicians and they have destroyed the two-party system. No matter if it’s a Republican or a Democrat that gets into office their the same beast with two heads. No matter whose in the White House, the same people pay him for. Even if he did try to get the truth out, what news station would allow it? They might let him make his statements, but he would be so ridiculed by the press, which is owned solely by the multi-nationals, that the American public would lose all respect for him. The pro-corporate press very easily manipulates Americans. I can’t believe when Rush Limbaugh says the press is left-leaning when it’s so obviously right-leaning.<br />
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HUMP- Isn’t the Larry Flynt empire a corporation?<br />
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David- Under the FCC laws conglomerates or multi-nationals can own as many radio and television networks that they want. The problem is that the same people who own the sources for news and information are the same people who own nuclear power plants. So when there has been up to a 50% sperm reduction count over the last thirty years, you might hear a 10 second byte on it. And as my father says “it’s quieted to death.” I think that the purpose of the entertainment industry today is o keep the American public calm and distracted from what is really happening. Listen to what it says her in The Nation:<br />
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“ Even before PatCo stilled the hand of union busters, Business Week whined it’s newest mission, quote “ It will be a hard pill for many Americans to swallow, the idea of doing with less, so that big business can have more. Nothing that this nation or any nation in recent history compares in difficulty with the selling job that must be accomplished to get the American people to accept the new reality.””<br />
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That was written twenty years ago. The thrust was already in motion.<br />
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HUMP- When Larry Flynt takes over like Blunt or Big Brother, skateboard magazines, how does the editorial content change? <br />
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David- Well I’m not involved with those publications, so I’m not there when Larry talks to the publishers. My guess would be that there is no agenda, I’m sure Larry leaves them to do whatever they want<br />
No other publisher in this country would have let me do what I have done with Rage magazine. I have taken a political position that is anti-press and anti-corporation and have not had to worry about advertisers and kissing their butt. Granted, because we are a men’s publication, many advertisers do want to advertise with us anyway. But it all comes together to allow me the ultimate goal in publishing. I am not answerable to anyone except Larry Flynt and Larry doesn’t care what I put in the pages of the magazine. The girl part of it is his focus and he’s very concerned about the photo features.<br />
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HUMP- Is there censorship in what can happen in the girl copy?<br />
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David- Well of course I can’t say that they are a minor becaue they must be over 18 years of age and I can’t say that they have been screwing their pet dog because bestiality is illegal, but you would think I would have the right to report on that. So even though, by the letter of the law it is legal for me to write something like that, you end up with distributors and retailers freaking out and perhaps even getting busted by conservative prosecutors in back water counties in Georgia. <br />
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HUMP- So when Larry was involved in all the court hearings were you running Hustler?<br />
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David- Yes that’s true. And during part of that time I was running Hustler from the courthouse. At the Cincinnati trial for instance, I think Althea was one of the people originally charged and although she was second in command, I was running the magazine for them. It was always from the first day I got there Larry, Althea and me. Althea was always actively involved with the magazine. I could always count on her to represent the best interest of the magazine.<br />
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HUMP- Were you in Georgia when Larry got shot?<br />
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David- Actually I was going to go to Georgia where he was shot, but Larry said “don’t worry about it, nothings going to happen there.” <br />
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HUMP- In the movie it appeared that after Althea contracted AIDS, that respect for her dropped from the other staff members.<br />
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David- I left Hustler right before any of that happened. I began to write for television shows like Family Ties and ALF.<br />
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HUMP- How was it going from issue driven content to fluff?<br />
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David- I hated it. I don’t think that I fit anywhere but in the world of porn. It’s the only place where I find people that are not uptight, not inhibited and who are free and easy with their speech and don’t mind a good debate. I still to this date have dinners with Al Goldstein. This guy is a great iconoclast. You can sit at the table and discuss anything and take any position pro or con and it won’t poison you’re relationship with him. He’s guided by free thought. In the entertainment business there is huge amounts of money and everybody is afraid that the next guy coming up will get his job. <br />
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HUMP- At what point did you realize that ALF wasn’t cutting it.<br />
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David- I think I was becoming more and more concerned with what was going on in the world. I would watch TV news and I wouldn’t see my reality on it. I was becoming very aware that something was wrong and increasingly frustrated that I didn’t have a platform to express my views. I noticed that all the jokes that I would put in the show that were based on social commentary would inevitably get cut out. So I went to Larry, knowing his dedication to the first amendment and free speech with a proposal and Rage is what came out of it.<br />
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HUMP-- Wasn’t Rage out years ago as a test issue.<br />
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David- Althea Flynt at one time started a rock magazine called Rage. I’m not sure if it really ever came out, but it was Altheas intention. But LFP still had the name. We tried many names, but Rage kept coming up. We almost went with Bravo though, but there was a copyright problem with it.<br />
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HUMP- Bravo seems more like a theater review magazine. Do you feel like there is a certain age where kids shouldn’t be exposed to nudie magazines. When I was 12,I couldn’t wait to get my hands on Playboy.<br />
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David- Well I don’t think there is anything wrong with sex, nor showing pictures of naked women and naked men having sex. On the other hand I have twin boys who are six years old. And while I am very relaxed on the subject, I don’t leave the magazine laying around where they can find it. I think if they did find an issue they would be mildly curious and then they would quickly forget about it. Sex is a non-issue for them. But I’m not a psychiatrist, so I don’t know what the long range effects of that might be. Besides it’s a social taboo. I don’t want my ids running around on the streets saying that they saw daddy’s naked pictures. It’s a practical decision. But by the time your twelve or thirteen, if you’re healthy, you’ll want to get your hands on a men’s magazine. It’s normal and I can’t believe that society would frown and make such a big deal about it.<br />
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HUMP- Do you still get harassed by the Christian coalition?<br />
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David- Well Jerry Falwell still does his same old number. But even more so, the feminists always through Hustlers name into the mix. For the A&E biography on Larry Flynt, Larry asked me to participate for a couple of minutes and I reluctantly agreed. Of course the set-up to my talk was Gloria Steinem saying how disgusting and revolting the piece of meat cover was and then they cut to me saying “oh yeah, that was my idea.” I think that pornography or x-rated material is a non-issue, that war, that battle was decided by Larry Flynt back in the seventies and eighties. The religious right and the feminists can piss and moan all they want, but their not going to change anything. By and large the American people don’t care. The news is happy to print controversy about Larry Flynt, it keeps the public distracted from the real problem that the corporations control the American government.<br />
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HUMP- I would imagine that working for Hustler you probably saw just about everything under the sun. How was it when Larry hooked up with Ruth Carter?<br />
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David- That was disturbing. But by that time I had learned that not only is Larry unpredictable, he was also capable of making connections and links to people in areas that you would never expect, and that is part of his genius. To him the normal demarcations don’t apply. He was constantly establishing connections and seeing similarities in things that you would think had nothing in common. But still, his thing with Ruth Stapleton Carter was just too much. It was a problem for me terms of how I saw reality, but it wasn’t a problem for me in terms of how I saw Larry. I always knew it was his magazine and that he could do anything he wanted with it. I never questioned that or resented his choice of directions. Although the Christian slant in Hustler I did think was ludicrous and embarrassing, I had my name removed form the books shortly after that. And then I left the magazine entirely somewhere around 1981-82.<br />
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HUMP- One last question Bruce. If not Crispen Glover, who would have picked to portray you in the movie.<br />
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David- Brad Pitt.DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-77527260751765311002008-11-03T12:40:00.001-08:002008-11-03T12:41:29.746-08:00Interview with Weird NJGoin’ Jeresy<br />Weird New Jersey<br /><br /> Often treated like the red headed stepchild, New Jersey has been the target of ridicule of other states and contemporary conversation. And yet New Jersey has defined our current culture. From the light bulb, to the phonograph, to Motion Pictures, New Jersey has been a mutant gene in the double strand of America.<br /> If anything, Chico, California deeply resembles the feel of Jersey. There is a certain brashness and authenticity of the people that seems to define the character of it’s citizens. And while Chico doesn’t get the severe winters of NJ, there’s something in the air that reeks of Jersey. Maybe it’s all the transplants. While we all struggle through the transition of summer into winter, I can only hope that people keep their wits about them.<br /> I recall one time in good old NJ when I visited my friend Chuck. I was getting ready to move to California and had one more night in town. Most of my friends were in college and so it was off to Chucks for the last hooray. I was about halfway there when I realized that my bike had a flat front tire. Luckily it was all downhill from the point of the realized flat. I suppose I could have walked my bike the last mile but I threw reason to the wind as I shredded my rim on the descent.<br /> At Chucks, I was back in the prototype Wayne’s World basement. As one friend slept groggily on the couch, we poured Tabasco and chili peppers down his throat. <br />Since he was awake, we all moved outdoors for some air. With a little help from my hand, my beer emptied its contents down my throat, and it was back into the kitchen for a refresher. It was right around that time, alone in a big old NJ house when I heard a strange noise from the attic. It sounded like someone rummaging through a silverware drawer.<br /> I looked out the window and counted my friends, yup, they were all out there. I strained my ears and sure enough there was more metallic clanging from upstairs. As the hair on my neck stood up and started doing a little dance, I raced outside, and told the boys what I heard. Chuck said that both his grandparents died upstairs and that the attic was haunted.<br /> I still like to think that someone was getting one back on me for a prank I might have pulled.<br /> Mark Sceurman and Mark Moran of Bloomfield NJ have taken the folklore of NJ and put it together in a monthly magazine called Weird NJ. Within the pages of Weird NJ you get to hear more than ghost tales. This months issue features the fate of abandoned mental hospitals, a rail car graveyard, a host of strange cemeteries, the elephant house, an interview with a guy who saw something very strange in the skies of Paterson, weird NJ animals and more.<br /> Always ready for a new adventure, the two Marks are more than modern day Ghostbusters, they are your travel guides to the local legends, modern folklore and sites throughout the state of NJ that are previously unrecorded. If you are subject to the bizarre side of life, take a trip with HUMP through Weird NJ.<br /> <br /><br />HUMP- I got a copy of Weird NJ while I was visiting the East Coast this summer.<br /><br />Sceurman- Well it certainly is causing quite a stir around here. I’ve been doing this for eight years now. I started off by doing it just for my friends. At first the weird things were just a sidebar, but as time progressed, the weird places you can visit became the highlight.<br /><br />HUMP- I remember at sleep away camp there was always stories of creatures that lived in the Pine Barrens.<br /><br />Sceurman- We’ve encountered about twelve different devils in New Jersey, from the Bigfoot sightings up in the Northwest, to the Jersey Devil in the Pine Barrens, in Somerset there’s the Big Hairy Man that is seen wandering around in the great swamp area.<br /><br />HUMP- Why are these creatures referred to as “devils?”<br /><br />Sceurman- I think it came out of Puritan instincts. The first sightings were in the 1700’s and they thought everybody was the devil back then.<br /><br />HUMP- when does the MTV feature come out?<br /><br />Sceurman- it’s on November 30th. MTV gave us the cameras and said shoot whatever you want. We shot about five hours worth of film and it will probably be edited down to about seven minutes. But it will be action packed.<br /><br />HUMP- Have you become a magnet for weird stuff?<br /><br />Sceurman- People always stop me on the street and say “your that weird guy.” Somebody always has a haunted house they want us to go look at it and investigate it. That is not really what weird NJ is all about. We are set up more like a travel guide to odd places, just telling ghost stories doesn’t cut it.<br /><br />HUMP- My dad used to take me to gravity hill.<br /><br />Sceurman- Yeah, one is in Franklin Lakes and one is in Howell and one is in Hopewell. The one in Hopewell has a big X on the road where you’re supposed to stop, put your car in neutral and be amazed as it rolls up hill backwards. It’s really just an optical illusion. The thing is, that this magazine will always be around, because somebody always has a weird tale about their neighborhood, or something they remember being odd in their town. Really what we are after is stories that are not told outside the perimeters of a town and there is an abundance of tales in NJ.<br /><br />HUMP- Why is NJ so weird?<br /><br />Sceurman- I can’t really say, but we’ve found the more sparsely populated the area is, the stranger the stories get. People will tell us stories with very sparse directions and we head off to find them and photograph them. Usually people will say “go like twenty miles, past five telephone poles and hang a left.” Half of the fun is finding the places. With urban legends, you can say whatever you want, but in Weird NJ, there are tangible places that you can go visit.<br /><br />HUMP- Did you go to school for journalism?<br /><br />Sceurman- I always was into publishing. I started a zine called the Bonzo Dog Band Fan Club. It was based on the most obscure band we could find. We actually got to meet them and stay at their house in England. And that fizzled out and I went to this.<br /><br />HUMP- Oh. How is the music scene in NJ? <br /><br />Sceurman- Well there’s about 3 million bands with everyone trying to find their niche.<br /><br />HUMP- has anyone ever come up to your office and blown your mind?<br /><br />Sceurman- We interviewed this guy who has a time displacement machine and lives in a town that used to be called Sodom. He claims that he can displace time for up to two years. He also says that he has a car whose radio reports the news two days before it happens. The car I built out of wood and he claims that it can travel up to 350 miles an hour. We also received a letter form the celeberty stalker, the one who stalks Kathy Lee Gifford.<br /><br />HUMP- Is he a stalker or a hero?<br /><br />Sceurman- Well he’s in Virginia now and he wants me to pick up this time elliptic resonator he has to get him out of jail. <br /><br />HUMP- What’s the latest great story you did.<br /><br />Sceurman- We found the wallet man of Morristown that we’ve been looking for five years. When I say we, I mean my business partner, Marc Moran. There was a famous murder in 1833. Anton Le Blanc was a hired worker for a farm and he thought the owners had money so he killed them all and took off. The law found him in Jersey City the next day, brought him back to Morristown and hung him. While he was hung, they did experiments on him. They hooked up an electrical current to him to try and reanimate him. After that failed, they skinned him and made wallets and ladies handbags out of his skin. The legend was that that the handbags got into the possession of the very wealthy in Morristown. After five years of looking we finally found someone who had a wallet made out of Le Blanc. They also had his death mask. He found it at an estate sale. It just came rolling out of a box.<br /><br />HUMP- That’s right kids, only in New Jersey!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br /><br />Write to Weird NJ at POB 1346 Bloomfield, NJ 07003<br />Or e-mail them at HYPERLINK mailto:markatWNJ@aol.com markatWNJ@aol.com <br />And tell them HUMP sent ya!DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-15587750788923738292008-11-03T12:37:00.000-08:002008-11-03T12:38:37.852-08:00Interview with Apollo 12 astronaut Edgar MitchellDo The Right Psychic Stuff<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Interview with Apollo 12 astronaut Edgar Mitchell<br /><br /><br />Let me lead you down the path of the unusual and the strange. A short stop in the field of screams reveals a glimpse of unnerving dreams. Look under that rock, isn’t that a three headed salamander? Well, it’s more than a genetic mishap, it’s an omen. See the shadow of the raven on your heels? I know it means something, but what? Feeling the hairs on the back of your neck standing on end yet? Feeling psychic yet? Break out the Ouija board and get in touch with your psychic powers. Remember the time you weren’t sure who was moving the plastic thing across the board. Well what the hey was that about? What about the time you were going to call your friend and when you picked up the phone they were already on the other line? Yikes!<br /><br />Many of us have experienced weird odd freaky things that we couldn’t readily explain. We knew someone was staring at us and they were. OooooooHH. We knew a letter would come in the mail and it did. AAAhhhhhhh. Sure the skeptics say “look, you think about the phone ringing all the time, it’s only a matter of time before it rings at the same time you’re thinking about it.” But you and I know it’s our psychic powers. We’re starring in our own personal Twilight Zone episode. <br /><br />As much as we love the creepiness of knowing something is going to happen, very rarely do we blurt out that we can read others peoples thought. If you’ve paid attention to our rabid society you know that if you are truly psychic, desperate fates await you. Psychics always end up locked up in a padded cell as a nutball, or, stowed away in a government lab like a psychic La Femme Nakita (the movie, not the series), or, return to kill everyone in your High School Class ala Carrie, or begin to think that their Jesus. Believe it or not, but psychic powers are still considered to be a precious commodity by society and governments. But is it really worth getting locked up for?<br /><br />Me, I’m not afraid of some shrinks Diagnostic Manuel. I’ll say it loud and proud I’m telepathetic and I vote. I’m telepathetic, I can see the future, and it’s all bad. Don’t believe me? Well I’ll prove myself. Pick a number between one and ten. Multiply it by 9. Add the two digits in the number together till you get a single number, like if it’s 24 then 2+4=6. Subtract five. Take that number and find it’s letter equivalent like a=1 b=2 c=3 etc.. Take that letter and think of a country that starts with that letter. Take the last letter of the country and think of an animal that starts with that letter. Take the last letter of the animal and think of a fruit. Good going……………… you passed.<br /><br />At this point you probably feel ridiculous that you just obeyed some random commands in a paragraph. For those of you who know me, you can begin to feel scared that perhaps I am indeed willing my telepathetic powers over you. For those of you who know me not, feel lucky.<br /><br />Imagine a world where we could see each other’s thoughts. Frankly it worries me endlessly. I barely like to hear what people are up to, let alone see their every thought. Unfortunately for me, a total breakthrough between humans psyches will occur and soon, according to sixth man ever to walk on the moon, Dr. Edgar Mitchell. Dr. Mitchell’s Institute of Noetic Sciences explores the scientific principals behind ESP, telepathy, psychokinesis and other ‘powers’ he considers part of the natural evolution of humans and the universe. His new book “The Way of the Explorer: An Apollo Astronauts Journey through the Material and the Metaphysical Worlds,” is a brilliant look at Mitchell’s life.<br /><br />If you really dive into this interview certain ideas should present themselves to you. You might think something like this: <br /> You-“ Wow, this astronaut dude is really into ESP. He used to do experiments with Uri Geller, that Israeli Psychic who used to go on talk shows in the seventies and bend spoons with his mind. Weird. Huh? Edgar Mitchell thinks that because of an experience he had in space he was going to devote his life to trying to prove ESP is real. And he’s done it. Cool.”<br /> Others of you probably won’t understand a word of this interview and probably didn’t get Kangaroos eating Oranges in Denmark either. <br /><br />If you ended up with Cats eating Strawberries in the Dominican Republic, or Dogs eating Strawberries in Deutsche Land, you’re far too analytical for your own good. <br /><br />Rev up the engines, hit the boosters, start the countdown, feel your throttle, tilt your head back, engage warp drive and put your, hand-built to scale, pyramid on your head (to recharge your brain cells) and let Spaceship HUMP take you to the moon and back with Edgar Mitchell.<br /><br /><br />Ever since I was ten I’ve been fascinated by books such as “Psychic Discoveries Beyond the Iron Curtain,” “Surgeon of the Rusty Knife,” and of course the Uri Geller books. As an Astronaut and a mainstay of our society, how did you get involved in such fringe culture?<br /><br />Well, let me simply tell you the experience then let you know of the “wow” that occurred to me. I had a PHD in aeronautics and astronautics before I went The experience was a sudden realization that the molecules in my body and the molecules in that spacecraft and the molecules in the bodies of my friends were manufactured by an ancient generation of stars out there. Suddenly instead of an intellectual exercise in how stars form it became a very personal experience and that became kind of a “wow.” I realized from that experience that our scientific cosmology on how we came to be and how the universe formed was incomplete and flawed. The religious cosmologies and esoteric cosmologies were archaic and flawed and we needed a new story about ourselves. At some point in human life people always ask the questions “who are we,” “how did we get here,” and “where are we going?” It seemed to me as a newly minted space herded civilization that we needed to re-ask those questions. I experienced the Universe as interconnected and an intelligent process yet neither were described nor understood in any of our official ways of knowing. It is mystical experiences that are the basis for all religion. I began to ask myself “what is this brain. Why am I beginning to feel this exhilaration?” It was enigmatic and I’ve spent the last 25 years trying to resolve those issues.<br /><br />Did you at one point on the re-entry of Apollo 12 turn to Alan Shepard and say “dude, I’m having a religious experience.”<br /><br />No, it was too powerful for that, too personal, too much wonderment. I did look at my colleagues and wonder if the y were experiencing any of this but they seemed to be busy doing other things. Many Lunar Module pilots like myself after the lunar surface activity was complete had a light workload on the way home. We were systems engineers flying the command module home on a well functioning spacecraft, we didn’t have to pay that much attention to what was going on. There was time to be contemplative and meditative and gawk at the universe. Most of the LMP had a heightened experience, but for most of them it took many years to acknowledge it and talk about it, which was also true for me. When my duties with NASA were done I formed the Institute of Noetic Sciences and set out to understand what my experience and what all this means.<br /><br />Did your contemporaries see you as a heretic?<br /><br />I’m sure some of them felt that. Interestingly enough, I did an ESP experiment on the mission from the moon and you would be surprised how many state conservative engineers furtively slipped into my office, closed the door, and asked me to tell them about it. Once it became public that is. So yes, I was seen as different, but I had too good a reputation as an intellect to be dismissed out of hand. There was a certain measure of respect that went with all of it.<br /><br />If it’s true that Russia had been working on paranormal experiments since the fifties did you ever learn of what our government was up too? Was NASA involved in the pursuit of telepathes? <br /><br />Well NASA had no such agenda, but our intelligence community, the CIA had a lot of work going on in the late sixties and seventies just like the soviets did and I happened to know about that, although I wasn’t on the inner circle of that. Nearly all of that work has been declassified in the recent years. Some of my colleagues, who I worked with at SRI with Uri Geller back in the early seventies have written papers on it. The work focused primarily on remote viewing.<br /><br />If you could get a kid who could see across country into someone’s file cabinets, that would be a pretty powerful weapon.<br /><br />That was the idea they were working on.<br /><br />Uri Geller seemed promising, was it just that he didn’t have the control?<br /><br />Well, he didn’t have the control he would have liked to have. The problem was that if a person is put in an environment that isn’t conducive to relaxing, they have great difficulties in utilizing their capabilities. The mental environment and the environment of acceptance either help you along or hinder you. After 25 years of research I understand pretty darn well how this works. My new book that I’ve been working on for the last three years explains the theoretical properties behind the experience.<br /><br />In a world where any half bit actor or actress establishes their own Psychic network, it does seem that, based on supply and demand, people really do want to believe.<br /><br />I always try to set out and show what is real and what is not real. I have good physical science and brain neurology to show what happens and how it happens.<br /><br />Are some people more prone to ESP than others?<br /><br />Yes, but it all has to do with early training. If you grew up in a home where it was allowed and encouraged, it becomes developed like a muscle. If you exercise it becomes developed if you don’t it atrophies. By the time were nine or ten, if we don’t exercise that muscle the brain starts pulling out those neurological circuits. There is a neurological component to it. What we are dealing with here is a very basic way that the universe has organized itself. There is nothing supernatural about it. The institute trails behind my own work, independent schooling and research.<br />People have been having these types of experiences forever. They call them Mountaintop Experiences or Eureka Experiences or Epiphanies. I just happened to choose going into space to have a really powerful one. I assimilated information in a new way. For me it was looking at my Universe from a new perspective that gave me the experience. The intriguing question is why does the brain do that? Why does the brain reorganize ideas? It’s an evolutionary cosmological fact that nature does that. We’ve been overlooking something that is very natural and evolutionary. I try to explore why and to have it make sense.<br />It turns out that all the psychic effects are tied to what is called in physics as quantum non-locality. This was discovered years ago, but only proven in 1982. It ties right in to many of the parapsychological studies. I don’t use the word “para” anymore. It’s all psychological to me, science. It’s the way nature works it has a non-local component that quantum physics has talked about for 75 years and that’s what we are seeing, that information is ubiquitous in the universe.<br /><br />In Village of the Dammed, a generation of kids become psychic and the adults destroy them. Aren’t there many people who profit from secrets and wouldn’t it seem that destroying telepathy would be a main goal of theirs?<br /><br />Well, now you’re getting to the evolutionary component of all this, we live in a trial and error universe and it’s one that is constantly developing. We have 400 years lived under the classic Newtonian and Cartesian worldview, or system of thought where everything is separate and discreet. We have built a whole civilization in the west under those ideas. It turns out those ideas are wrong and flawed, that is not the way that the Universe is structured and we are just now realizing it. People have a lot vested in the old order of things. Cartesian duality and separation of religion and science have been the dictum, the sacred cow for four hundred years, they don’t want to see that order changing, but in an evolutionary universe it’s going to change anyway. So the answer is yes and that is exactly what has to change. The religious community has always said these things are true they just happen to be supernatural and the scientific community has always said that they are not true because they don’t have a model that explains them or theory that explains how they work. I have to say sorry your both wrong, it does work and it is very natural if you understand how mind and matter are related. I have done physical experiments that prove my theories but it’s a slow process getting them accepted by the scientific community.<br /><br />Even psychology wasn’t accepted for quite a while.<br /><br />The BF Skinner school of behaviorist thought and the Pavlovian notion of how learning takes place dominated it. In the seventies transpersonal thought and several other things transcended those ideas. So now we are finding ways to how it works. We explain through Quantum Holograms, which is a non-local portion of matter, it carries the information about the event history of every object in the Universe. Since a Quantum Hologram is non-local it is available to any human or object that can tune into it.<br /><br />Aboriginal tribes supplement their rituals with hallucinogenic materials in order to transcend locality. Does your institute ever work with those types of factors?<br /><br />Well, those earlier cultures all seemed to use hallucinogens of one kind or another. By and large what this does is gets the left brain out of the way so that you are perceiving through the primitive more emotional right part of the brain, and that’s all well and good, but it’s unnecessary. The evolutionary leap, in my opinion is a better integration of the left and right hemispheres of the brain into a more holistic way of learning. We know how to train peoples how to do that. Ancient meditative techniques help people to do that.<br /><br />What is the breakthrough that you see coming in the next couple of years?<br /><br />What I’m talking about is he a better understanding of the Quantum Hologram. We now know that it is a basic part of all nature and it is responsible for what we perceive as mystic, spiritual, esoteric insights. It is firmly rooted in the way matter is structured. The mystics have always said that Universe is interconnected and this is exactly what the Quantum Hologram proves.<br /><br />The story goes when my mom was pregnant with me when she would walk in front of the TV the station would change. Where doe this fall into the realm of things you’ve seen.<br /><br />Well I’ve never heard of that one before, but it doesn’t surprise me, we have seen with people like Uri Geller and hundreds like him that these are ubiquitous human capabilities centered around what we call intention. The way we think and the way we choose does have an effect on the physical world and if you have any doubt about that look at this century and the way human intention have changed the face of the planet. It also works on a much deeper level than that as well. Our intention does affect physical reality and that is demonstrable. <br /><br />What about the story where Uri Geller manifested your tie clips that had been missing for two years?<br /><br />Was it good science, no? Was it a good a awakening experience that anchored for me that we are dealing with a powerful real phenomena here and the question is how do we explain it and that of course is what I have been able to do. The Institute is a very powerful organization and we have 50,000 sustaining members and we are a potent force for how we bring the spiritual and the scientific together into a common understanding. We are currently trying to refocus on how we should go in the next twenty-five years.<br /><br />When you build a bridge between eastern and western thought you realize that the Easterners understood all along what he nature of the universe was while the westerners have had to have the truth almost kill them before they caught a glimpse.<br /><br />It was the Cartesian duality in the West that allowed science to arise. The intellectual power at the time and the investment in the inquisition and the Roman Catholic Church allowed intellectuals of that time to look at science because it didn’t threaten the church’s position. So physical science was capable of rising and doing all the wonderful things its done n the last three hundred years. Now we realize that it was an artificial division. Hegel said that thesis; antithesis and synthesis make progress. We’re at a point of new synthesis where we are capable of putting it all back together again where science and the mystical experience must be understood within the same framework.<br /><br />So whereas Maslow said only some people could achieve peak experiences, you are saying that it is available to all?<br /><br />Maslow was right as far as tradition and our evolutionary path, but what we are talking about is an evolutionary future in which these capabilities are available to anyone. It is a matter of choosing, it is a matter of training, it is a matter of cultural bias and if we train people and it becomes an acceptable worldview in our culture then these capabilities are available to everyone. If people open themselves to the knowledge I think they will choose it. Especially if we find ourselves in world crisis like we do at this moment where civilization is in peril there is no insurance that we are going to survive and we won’t unless we change our minds a little bit.<br /><br />In your own family have you fostered the psychic muscle in your kids?<br /><br />I have tried yes. My older children are adults; my eldest daughter just turned 44. All of my children are open to these ideas and are experimenters themselves. There are groups raising their kids this way.<br /><br />Doesn’t the church see your ideas as the work of Satan?<br /><br /> I call it the death road of the dinosaur. The dinosaurs were a successful species for a couple of hundred million years but then they failed to be able to accommodate to changing times. Maybe they were helped along by an asteroid impact by its no matter, we are in evolutionary universe and we will either evolve or we will perish. There is always resistance to change but nature has a way of kicking us in the but when we get too complacent. Things move along in spite of our desires not to evolve. If we don’t evolve willingly we will evolve out of sheer necessity.DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-80360055214440925802008-11-03T12:29:00.000-08:002008-11-03T12:30:17.565-08:00Interview with Peter Gorman-Mister High TimeI don’t know why I started doing what our society leeringly call’s “drugs.” Smoking pot was totally frowned upon in Suburbia, but in 1976, the “hip” dad’s were doing blow and the unhappy housewives were fuzzed out on the big V, Valium. Pot seemed nondescript and innocuous compared to what the adults were doing. On the East Coast, in the Metropolitan area, green bud was a rumored whisper. What us 15 year olds were able to find was QP’s of Oaxacan Red and Acapulco Gold. These bricks of stick, stems, rocks, seeds and marijuana, cost about $400 and were easily divided up between the Valedictorian, Football, Track, and Soccer stars (and me, the loser).<br /> Every now and then we would get some sort of green looking weed that was tied around a stick and was supposedly from Thailand, but who knows? Looking back on it, it was probably from Newark. My boss at the bagel shop, would allow me to cash my paychecks and trade them to him for vacuum sealed bags of Thai weed. It was a novelty along with the opiumated Nepalese hashballs and Hash oil. At the time, it didn’t matter what it was as long as it was accompanied by the promise that it would get you high. The hash oil was interesting because this was before anyone had even heard of Crack, so there was no smoking apparatus available for it. We would just strike a flame under the aluminum foil it came in, and when it started to smoke,, 7 heads would rush forward, knocking each others noggin, like the stooges, and sucking at the air like tracheotomy patients. <br /> Good Old Jimmy Carter gave the thumbs up to spraying pot fields with the chemical Paraquat. So us kids got the thrill of harshing our lungs out for a season there in the 70’s. But even government sprayings couldn’t stop us from trying to get high. We would smoke banana peels, eat nutmeg, swallow ounces of morning glory seeds and chew on Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds. Whatever it took, we would try it, at least once.<br /> A lot of my High School buddies were into popping pills. Ludes (real 714’s), placidils, Phenobarbital’s and other assorted vials would often go around the circle. I hated pills they made me gag. I think it was genetic because my dad couldn’t take pills either. To this day, taking an aspirin for me is a traumatic experience, accompanied by voluminous retching noises.<br /> Even within the drug culture, I was an oddball. I wasn’t into it for the kicks. I thought there was something more to it all. I thought that changing consciousness was somehow very important to humanity and me in general. Of course, any weak attempts I made to express those deeper sentiments, were instantly mocked and ridiculed. God, how I miss those days and wish I was back in High School. Not.<br />Amidst my adventures and deals came a magazine that was considered the scourge of our generation, High Times. True, the adrenaline kick out of seeing dripping wet buds was a big reason to buy the mag, but it often offered more information than was available anywhere else. There was even a High Times Encyclopedia that had pictures of 100 types of bud to compare and contrast with. And there were stories and articles about Psychedelics as healing tools, Hemp as a crop that could save the world and the Drug War as being evil. Finally, I found a voice of reason. And at the helm of that majestic ship was Peter Gorman. <br />Gorman was recently featured on the Art Bell Show and his wit and sincerity came through like a charm. So what’s it like running the forerunner magazine of the subculture? Well let’s find out as we HUMP for victory with High Times own Peter Gorman…………………<br /><br /><br />Hey Peter, this is HUMP. Whaddya doing?<br /><br />Just waiting for the Giants game, looking at some kayaks.<br /><br />You going to the game? <br /><br />Forget about it. This is NYC, it would cost you $50 just to get to the stadium. I’d have to rent a car just to get there. <br /><br />Were you the managing editor of High Times?<br /><br />I’m currently the editor-and-chief, and Steve Hagan is the editorial director. But he’s bigger than me. In terms of the day to day of the magazine, at the moment, I’m the guy running the magazine. Steve was the editor-and-chief for twelve years and for the last several, I’ve been his executive director, beneath him. So if he goes on a trip, then I substitute for him. That’s the technical chain of command at the mag. Steve has stepped up to editorial director, which means, that he’s doing so many outside projects, publishing books, putting on weed festivals, Cannabis Cups, making videos that he can’t do it all and run the magazine. So he is set up at home and doesn’t come in to open letters and the everyday humdrum stuff. So I’m the one who has to ask for six more pages, because we sold too many ads, and trying to get the mag to spend another $15,000. Since Steve had so many outside projects, they moved him upstairs and said “you have the input, but you don’t have the day to day responsibilities.”<br /><br />When I used to get High Times as a kid, my mother thought it was the foulest piece of trash. It seems that society has matured enough to realize High Times just might be a source for information. Do you feel that mainstream America is finally catching up with the message of High Times?<br /> <br />When I look back at the first issue of High Times ever published by Tom Forsad, it was intended as a one shot legitimate mock of Playboy. Our centerfold was going to be some beautiful marijuana. You can tell by the contents of the first issue, that Tom had some amazing visionary qualities. He had a piece on Hemp paper revisited, he had a piece on medical marijuana, he had a piece by Tim Leary on the spiritual use of cannabis and he included three or four articles on the recreational use. So whether he understood it or not, those are the same issues we’ve been harping on since 1973. I don’t think that society has caught up with High Times. There were years where we felt like we were trapped in an empty oilcan banging at the sides wondering if anybody was hearing anything that we said. While we didn’t invent medical marijuana or Hemp or resisting the drug war, I don’t think it would have ever become an issue if it weren’t for the magazine. When we write about forfeiture, then mainstream journalists use us as a source. I would say that every mainstream Drug War story written in the last ten years had the writer coming to High Times saying “give me the background I need.” We rarely get credited though, because who would want to be associated with us. From the New York Times, to Peter Jennings, to the Atlantic Monthly, to Bill Buckly, we’re the place where people come for this type of information. Our credibility among reporters around the country is accepted. They know by and large that we are using government figures, we’re rooting them out, we’re getting the original documentation of materials. I’m glad to say that we are no longer the only source. NORMAL, which was in disarray and impoverished to the point where it couldn’t keep up with the demand, is back in full swing. The Drug Policy Foundation, seven or eight years ago was just an idea. Well it became a real solid place for people to get information. Ethan Nattleman who was a antidrug crusader when he first went to Princeton and was working for the US Government has become the national spokesman for the foundation. He’s the one with the PHD. We always felt it was worth it to get this information out there. But has society caught up? No, we’re still left out of the New York Time stories. We’ll get thank you letters from Atlantic Monthly, but that’s all the credit we’ll get.<br /><br />Dr. Lester Grinspoon wrote “Marijuana Reconsidered” back in the mid-sixties. In it he predicted prohibition being lifted in twenty years. Obviously it hasn’t happened yet. Do you see change coming anytime soon?<br /><br />Ya know, here’s the thing. It would be nice and optimistic to say yes. But I don’t really think so. I think there was a chance of it throughout the sixties and most of the seventies. But everyone in the goddam movement back then fell in love with cocaine in 1973. We didn’t realize it was going to cost us so much in the court of public opinion. We didn’t realize how powerful it was. So by the eighties, the public was ripe for a real movement against marijuana. Along with Nancy Reagan’s “Just Say No” movement in 1984 there was laws of such severity against marijuana, that Drug War machine really grew. At this point we need more than public opinion to dismantle it. The Feds spend 14 billion dollars on the War on Drugs. Marijuana is more than a percentage of that budget. Marijuana allows the Feds to keep that wall between us and Mexico. You’ve got to have a border to check for bulky products. The prison system is so huge that it must continually grow. If we yanked a 100,000 people out, they would have to stop building more prisons. What would the police around the country and the DEA do if there were 640,000 less arrest’s each year. To dismantle a self-perpetuating machine, you have to ask grown men and women to give up their jobs for the good of the people. Grown men and women who are raising kids do not give up their jobs, they will fight for tooth and nail. Even if their jobs are harming other people, they will continue to believe what they need to believe in order to continue to do their work. The DEA guy doesn’t have another job. He doesn’t get absorbed in the FBI or the police department. If he really is effective wiping out drugs, or if the drug war ends, he’s out on the street begging nickels. So with that kind of entrenchment, whether it’s the building of prisons, the privatization of prisons or local law enforcement, there are people up and down the ladder of society who are involved in perpetuating the War on Drugs. Public sentiment will have to reach a critical mass for things to change. It will have to reach the same point as things were during the Vietnam War. In ’67, ’68, when we went to Washington and marched against Vietnam, the TV cameras showed 200,000 scruffy dope-smoking hippies. The public would say “see their all cowards they don’t want to go fight the war.” By 1973 the TV cameras showed scruffy hippies and a whole lot of grandmas and nurses and nuns that it began to impossible to call anyone cowards. One grandma standing up against the War on Drugs has the value of about 10,000 copies of High Times at the newsstand’s. She’s got credibility. That’s who has to get involved if we want to end this thing. That’s the kind of critical mass I’m talking about.<br /><br />How’s the market for pot these days?<br /><br />If your paying more than $300 an ounce for High Times Cover quality bud, you’re an Okie from Muskogee and you don’t know enough people. Most commercial growers these days are doing what is called ‘futures.’ They have a top-notch product and when they plant it, they take their orders, so it is sold before it goes out of vegetative stage. You pay $200 and you take the chance that if he gets busted you lose your $200. Most commercial growers give their leaf to Cannabis Clubs, personally, I prefer trim to bud.<br /><br />Do you the standard of $50 an 1/8 is too much money?<br /><br />I understand that the grower is risking going to jail for a long time. I’m not going to fault somebody saying “I want X amount of money for the chance that I’m taking.” Now the California grower may think he’s not risking as much these days, but the FEDS can step in. Take the case of Osborne in Sounthern California. He’s facing 13 years for being busted on a Marijuana Buyers Club grow. The problem is that he was giving his stuff away and now he doesn’t have any money for a lawyer. He was driving an old car, living in an old rented house and some snitch drops a dime. If had charged money, he might have been able to afford a good lawyer that could get the whole case dropped. But by being Mr. Nice Guy, he faces going to jail. Whether a grower is nice or not nice, they’re all taking a chance to give us what we want, or to give some people what they need.<br /><br />In your Bud Stock Market page, do you ever not print peoples reports of prices from around the country?<br /><br />Sure. Those pages are frequently brought into court to show what the value of a particular person’s crop, or what they were busted with, would be. If some ass of a reader spends $800 on an ounce and we printed it, it would affect the subculture greatly for the next 20 pot trials. That’s the only thing I would tamper with. It’s the same way someone will show us a bushy plant and say I got 12 pounds out of it. Bullshit. You couldn’t twelve pounds out of an Oak tree in a year. A pound, two pounds from an outdoor plant that’s allowed to be tied down. There is one legendary plant in Humboldt that actually yielded nine pounds. No ones ever come forward and said that they smoked it, but they’ve all heard about it. Sometimes readers just like to show off, but we know better than that.<br /><br />What about the importance of Psychedelics?<br /><br />I’ve written most of the Psychedelic stuff in the magazine for the last ten years. If I didn’t write it, I commissioned it and edited it. So I’ve had my finger on it. Psychedelics are an invaluable tool for the human mind and spirit. The first time you do LSD in the right place, at the right time, with the right person that can hold your hand and walk you through it, your life is changed forever. You come out the other side and you are not the same, and you will never be the same. Good rich psychedelic experiences always involve temporary disillusion of the ego. It’s hard to see yourself as a tiny part of the universe. Now some people just don’t need that experience. But for most of us, certainly for me, the first time I did 1000 mics and saw myself as a speck of the Universe, it was difficult. I realized I am nothing, I don’t affect change, I am zero. That’s where most people lose it because they haven’t taken care to be with the right person, in the right place, at the right time. Now the ego rebuilds itself, but when it does, you’re not quite the same. The experience allows you understand that there is life in everything. You don’t think the wall is alive, you see it breathing. You do it through yoga and meditation. You reach an awareness of self in a living world. But the right dose with the right person etc.. can get you there in eight hours, instead of twenty years. The experience won’t solve any problems, but it will give you a place to work towards. The important thing is to take what you learn and learn to live it. If I were king, the whole world, once a year would dose. But I’m not king. But if I had my druthers, I think the world would be a better place for it. If we all took three deep breathes and ingested a healthy dose of psychedelics, the Drug War would end tonight. Racism and Apartheid would cease. The Serbs and the Bosnians would be embracing and saying “Oh my god, man, you’re glowing. I realize your not just some skunk, you’re me and I’m you.” We’ll never get to that point without the LSD and that is the tragedy of the human race. One of the solutions is here and available.<br /><br />Tell me about your experiences in Peru and specifically with the Ayahausca Vine.<br /><br />The indigenous people that I’ve associated with are primarily the Mochas Indians. When I met them in 1985, they were in the midst of change. Now they’ve changed so much that they wear better clothes than I do. Unfortunately, I feel that the change is not for the better. They were fully aware of the world outside them when we first met. But when you have missionaries coming in, archeologists from the Peruvian government and just a lot of outsiders, it’s easy to get burnt down. The culture has undergone radical change in a rate that is not normal for it. 1500 years of change in 5 years. None the less, a lot of these people are going to be tattooed people in a non-tattooed world. I’m sure a lot of the kids will be embarrassed that their dads are walking around with tattoos on their face. The Mochas, Ahinas and the Boras use substances to aid in hunting, relaxing and to communicate with the spirit world. At least the elders do, not the youth. None of those groups use Ayahausca. The ones who I know that do are the Mestizos. Generally river communities, or people who within the last generation lived on the river. Generally, fishers, hunters and a large part of the population of the Amazon. For them Ayhausca is a very simple clean medicine. It’s called Apurga, it makes you vomit. Anyplace where you have the potential for bacteria in your food supply, you’re going to occasionally need something that will clean out your intestines. Boom. So physically it helps enormously. It is also a curative on other levels. Many people who live in the Amazon region believe that not only are things imbued with spirit, but the spirits can cross over to the this world. So if a guy is having bad luck on his farm, but the guy next to him has good vegetables growing, it wouldn’t be seen in the sense of “maybe my soil’s too acidic.” It would be seen as someone has given me the evil eye. The farmer would go to a curandero and the curandero would take the ayahauscu. He would then, while in the spirit world, see who made the attack and who provoked the attack and how to undo the attack. It’s also used in a very traditional way, although the traditional people are very reluctant to talk about this. My mother-in-law I’ve known for years, and she scoffed at anything I said until I married her daughter. And then I found out she knows 45 house painters and cab drivers who are really curanderos in and around curitos. It is a part of their life, but it’s a part that’s very difficult to access. The traditional Peruvians use Ayahauscu to talk to their dead relatives. It is a channel to the world of the dead. They also use it to visit people in other cities instead of a phone. So, Ayahusca is very important, but not as a hallucinogen, is used very specifically. The curanderos who make it are treated with high regard. They are real healers and that is their job in the village in which they live. There are Ayahusceros who just treat the tourist trade, but it’s because it’s so easy to make the damn thing.<br /><br />I read a story you wrote about a vision you had of a pack of wild boar. The tribe excited by your vision woke you up early the next morning and had you lead them to the spot in your vision. And sure enough a pack of wild pigs came running through. My question is this, in indigenous cultures, visions appear as places to gather food or other resources, what would a modern man, in modern society see that would benefit him?<br /><br />In our civilization, we would have visions that we’re supposed to have a house. You would have a vision of a job that pays you enough so that you can save some money. I think that when I say that the Indians are not better off now because their becoming more integrated, it’s precisely for the same reasons the Irish, from where I come, are not better off for being integrated. When we lived in a more stable community, our safety nets were a lot higher. We’ve reduced ourselves to tawdry visions of “If I work harder, I can have a car.” We never envision what we want, so visions no longer come to us. In a more communal society, I would get together with my brothers and we would envision things together. One of the things the indigenous people used to say very openly is that there is genuine accessible life force, which they call, A spirit, in everything, from an empty Coca-Cola bottle, to the Coca-Cola within that bottle. It’s like when Tim Leary would say “take acid and you’ll see God.” Within an accepting community that might hold true, but outside that group you’re seen as crazy and a weirdo. Certainly Timothy Leary suffered from being considered an oddball, of course he was embraced b all the other oddballs, so he got through it all right. Of course when Leary laid that message on us we had already gone through three generations in America, where we thought a white picket fence was the best goddam thing you could come up with. And I don’t want to put that down, but it may not be the only thing worth coming up with.<br /><br />How long have you been taking people to Peru?<br /><br />I’ve been going to Peru since 1984, sometimes annually, sometimes twice. Always for a couple of months a year. I’ve done writing about my trips and ended up collecting things for the Museum of Natural History in New York. I’ve collected herpetological specimens, particularly some frogs and a few years ago I was asked to collect some medicinal plants for a small experimental pharmaceutical company on the West Coast. Last year the Indians turned us onto bone fossils that are 15,000,000 years old and “of interest.” Every one of these aspects has been a gift from the Indians. I’ve always, till know, not gone out with other people. People who come on my trip will see Peru like no other trip will show them. We’ll go shopping at the Market that all the cops say stay away from, it’s a crazy Market. Not only that but we’re going to have beers as we watch the sunset on the Amazon. Those are the kinds of things that I like to do. Since I’m taking a leave of absence form High Times, I have a certain fear that I won’t be able to feed my family. So suddenly, economically, the idea of taking people on trips made sense. I’m only going to do three trips and I’ll see if it’s something that’s enjoyable. Our first trips in March and then one in April. Anyone who goes with me will find a trip like no other. If you want to be whisked away from the airport and put on a boat sipping champagne form the comfort of your own room, that’s lovely, but that’s not what I’m offering. If you’re willing to get slightly dirty, slightly scared, occasionally terrified and never actually in danger of dying, then my trips for you. I want to take people night fishing, which doesn’t mean you have to fish, you don’t have to kill anything. It means getting into a very unstable dug-out canoe and scooting along the edge of a river bank for a couple of hours, a couple of times, and looking at the marine life, by holding a flashlight at the banks. I’m not taking people to protected ponds, we’ll be on the real river. I’ll be real disappointed if we don’t see several crocodiles, and you’re supposed to be terrified, we’re in an unstable boat for God’s sake. I want to expose people to the real color and culture of the region. When we get on a riverboat, we won’t get on my river boat, we’ll get on a real river boat. 120 feet long, 30 foot wide and packed to the gills. Two floors of hammocks and spider webbed insanely. I could get a nice boat, but other tours already do it that way. I want people to see things that they will never forget. And by seeing it with me, their seeing it with someone who has enough friends in the region to make it safe. People are going to come back with the smell of jungle in their noses and their going to have a gas and a half.<br /><br />Strange as this sounds, if it weren’t for High Times, I probably might never have gotten to Graduate School. Growing up, High Times was the only source for the strange ideas I had. Any hopeful vision you’d like to say to your fans out there.<br /><br />No. Not really. I think each individual makes choices and they start every morning when you get up. You make the choice if you’re going to get drunk at night or stay sober, you’re going to write that letter to your friend or you will choose not to. For those of us who have been touched by something as awful as the Drug War, you wake up every morning with a choice, do we fight again today? That choice is often a difficult one. You get laughed at more than you get patted on the back and there’s no financial remuneration in teaching people. Even in public schools, teachers don’t make very much, so forget making a living off teaching people tat the drug war is evil. I think that the hope is in each one of us being willing to take a little more of the burden than we are given. But when you do fight the good fight, your sleep, if you can sleep is a very rich sleep. We all don’t have to have a heavy cause, but these are things we live with, and you either contribute and become vocal, or you remain silent. If there’s any hope at all for the drug war or any of the other terrible things that humans inflict on each other, that hope lies in the heart of each individual human. Wake up and say, “Today I will affect change, somehow, and I will make the effort.” That’s the hope. I have no hope that someone will come down and fix it all, it’s up to us. It’s a hopeful sign when you say that High Times affected you in a positive way. That means in 1979 someone was writing an article and was going to sluff off and write a second rate one and instead said, “shit, let me give it another rewrite.” He or she didn’t know that was actually going to touch somebody and maybe that was the one that got ya. So there was hope created in your response, but it started with that person saying, “I’ll do the extra two steps.”DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-44334075115335455842008-10-25T11:22:00.000-07:002008-10-25T11:23:55.904-07:00Melvin Seals InterviewBetter Dead than Red.<br /><br />Jerry Garcias favorite keyboardist Melvin Seals schools us through an evolution of the blues.<br /><br />For those of you who missed the bus, The Grateful Dead were the most adventuresome pioneers of American rock and roll of the 20th Century. Their acid-laced antics led to progress in colossal sound systems for arenas, streamlined maneuvers to move a circus around the country and novel ways in how to deal with a loyal deadicated fanbase. At the core of this electrified exodous was lead axeman Jerry Garcia. During the other 100 or so days the Dead weren't thrilling the masses, Jer's sideband, The Jerry Garcia Band (known as JGB) played more intimate venues. Since Garcia's untimely death in 1995, JGB has kept the flame burning.<br /><br /><br />DNA: This Is DNA.<br /><br />Melvin: Alright. How's it going?<br /><br />DNA: Great. Hows it going with you.<br /><br />Melvin: I can't complain.<br /><br />DNA: You just got back from Canada with JGB?<br /><br />Melvin: Yeah, over the weekend. It was pretty good.<br /><br />DNA: How are those Canadian Deadheads?<br /><br />Melvin: They treated us real well.<br /><br />DNA: It's been a while since I saw a show in Canada. I always acted like an American diplomat when I was there. Trying to ward off our image as the retarded cousin. You're coming to Santa Cruz in a couple of weeks. The first shows you did after Jerry's passing were in Santa Cruz.<br /><br />Melvin: Yes, with John Kahn.<br /><br />DNA: And that was more of Kahn's band?<br /><br />Melvin: Yes, Kahn's band. That was his first stab of trying to do something after Jerry. It was definitely his deal. <br /><br />DNA: And then John passed like nine months later?<br /><br />Melvin: It's absolutely amazing I know.<br /><br />DNA: I watch the Discovery Channel, and I've seen a show on wolves, and when mates die the partner often dies not soon after that.<br /><br />melvin: They was the best of friends and that was the case. I hate to think that someone would give up their life and let-go because a partner, or a friend like that is gone. Ya know, maybe it does exist, because he sure did die. <br /><br />DNA: But you kept going keeping the music of JGB alive.<br /><br />Melvin: That's because when we did the dates down there in Santa Cruz, JOhn had a different point of view about what he wanted to do. But what I saw was those fans wanted to see JGB even with Jerry not onstage. When I saw that I thought, "OK, this could live on." And if John Kahn made a mistake the only mistake he would have made is he didn't do the Jerry tunes, he did his own stuff, what he wanted to do. And all night long the fans were screaming out the songs they wanted to hear, which were songs with Jerry. <br /><br />DNA: Deadheads are not that subtle. <br /><br />Melvin: So when I saw that I was like, "Oh my god, they still want to hear these songs." And when John Kahn died, I decided to go out and give them what they wanted to hear. So I called everybody and asked if they wanted to try and make it work, and I found an agent, and I was like, let's do this. <br /><br />DNA: And still going strong. You brought Jackie and Gloria to the band originally?<br /><br />Melvin: That's right.<br /><br />DNA: That was always something to see those two ladies up onstage, looking somewhat apprehensive, not quite afraid, but wary, and then somewhere in the midst of the show it all kicked in, and they were smiling along with everyone else. Thank you for that. <br /><br />Melvin: Jackie and Gloria went out with JGB for two years after John died, and it was a struggle for them. With Jerry everything was high on the hog, we stayed at the Fairmont, ya know five star hotels. But afterwards we didn't make that kind of money and had to stay in Best Westerns and Holiday Inns. They felt it as a downgrade, which it was. What you got to understand is that Jackie and Gloria came straight out of the church and never were in a band. Most people who begin in bands, know that you have to go on the road, sleep on the couch in peoples living rooms, sometimes you don't get a room. They never went through the struggle of trying to make it. They went straight from the church to touring with Jerry. That's why they looked a little scared, because they didn't know what was going on. They would be onstage thinking, "Is this real, what's going on here?" When Jerry died, we were back in the real world of trying to survive. We didn't make Jerry's money, nowhere near the money, not a fifth of the money. And yet, there was the same expense of trying to go on the road. So we couldn't stay in the best hotels, we couldn't fly in Lear jets, or first-class. We would be on a tour bus, or would have to drive ourselves and they just couldn't handle it. Because they never went through those days and understood that this is what it like in the real world. <br /><br />DNA: You went from working with Elvin Bishop and being in the rock and roll world to working with Jerry, it wasn't straight out of church.<br /><br />Melvin: Even before Elvin Bishop, I had played with a lot of bands. Buddy Miles, a bunch of people, Broadway shows. I knew that the Jerry world was not realistic, it was like a fairy-tale that would end one day, and don't get comfortable living on that level. I knew better than that. It was great, but I knew that the next thing I would get in, wouldn't be that! And it hasn't been that since. That's where the struggle came in and those were part of that. The salaries couldn't be what they were, because we weren't making that kind of money. <br /><br />DNA: You performed in Broadway shows in San Francisco? <br /><br />Melvin: I did a show called Evolution of the Blues for six years. John Hendricks on Broadway Theatre for six years. That's where Elvin Bishop saw me. And from Elvin I went on to Jerry. In theatre, the show is the same every night. Yes, there are levels to the performance, but essentially it's the same every night and matinee. How do you as an artist reconcile that kind of work. Did you enjoy it? Same cues, same songs, every night. You might get to try a little something here and there, but Broadway is about doing the same thing at the same high level, every night. Financially it was steady money. Stable. I had to join the musicians union. But quickly got bored of playing the same thing every night. <br /><br />DNA: But then you had five more years to go. . .<br /><br />Melvin: Right, right, right. I got saw by a lot of folks doing that show. Elvin is the one who took me to another level, but a lot of celeberties came to visit when they came to town. Redd Foxx. Bill Cosby, ya know, and they all came backstage, and I had a chance to meet a lot of people. Then Oscar Brown Jr. came through and I was able to do some work with him! It was a good thing.<br /><br />DNA: This event coming up is an Obama Rally. Have you in the past endorsed candidates?<br /><br />Melvin: This is a first and even though I am backing him, this is a concert. I was hired to do a performance. We're hired entertainers. Regardless that we are involved in the rally we are performers in the rally. That is how I am looking at this one. <br /><br />DNA: But you personally are backing Obama?<br /><br />Melvin: I think so, yes. I don't like for things to be written, I just do my little thing and thats what it is. Sometimes entertainers will stand out and say things, but I believe as individuals, we should all do what we want to do. <br /><br />DNA: Coming for a church background, what is it that is so special at JGB shows?<br /><br />Melvin: First off, when I can see a bit of unity and a bit of joy in the world and I'm a part of putting smiles on peoples faces, whether they are smiling or crying tears of joy, I feel special. People come to our shows to relive the moment, if they can, of what they liked. When I hear an oldie but goodie of something that was on the radio when I was in High School, I immediately go back to who I was then. And I like those moments. And if those artists come to town, if the are still alive, thats who I go see, but thats because what I want to relive. So at JGB, people all wear theeir tye-dyes and gather and dance and listen to theor favorite songs and savor the moment. Even though Jerry is not onstage, we try to make so that if you close your eyes, it sounds like he's there. And for a few moments, drop the world, come have some fun and great times, then pick up your burden and leave and go back outside. We were part of seeing people laugh, smile and have a great time and we were a a part of that. And that is what is important to me. I think that more laughter is needed in the world, more happiness. And that is kinda what we bring. <br /><br />DNA: Thats why I dedicated my life to stand-up comedy. If you don't like my jokes blame Jerry. <br /><br />Melvin: There ya go, there ya go. <br /><br />DNA: How do you like working with Stu Allen?<br /><br />Melvin: There's only two guys in all my travels and meeting people that got Jerry down. Stu is one of them and the other is the guy from Dark Star Orchestra (John Kadlecik) The guy from DSO is number one, he really has the tone down. Stu doesn't have the tone down, but he has the licks. Kadlecik has the tone, the licks, ya know, but Stu sounds more like Jerry with his vocals. John don't really sound like him. But as far as playing, John is a carbon copy of Jerry Garcia and then comes Stu. I found Stu back east, playing in a band called Jones Band. He wasn't as good as he is now. But he was smatr enough to hook up with Melvin Seals and the guys from JGB and arise to the occasion and he has. Hes holding his own quite well.<br /><br />DNA: What are your tours like for JGB?<br /><br />Melvin: I don't do tours like for six weeks or a month anymore. We go out every weekend, three days here, two days there. Four days sometimes, every now and then a week. But pretty much every Friday, Saturday Sunday, sometimes Thursday, those kinds of things.<br /><br />DNA: Are you in the studio doing work?<br /><br />Melvin: I'm working on a number of projects in the studio, and another solo album of my own. <br /><br />DNA: Can you give me any release dates or titles?<br /><br />Melvin: Oh no, I'm nowhere near that. Just working in stuff...<br /><br />DNA: Are you ever in touch with the other members of the Dead? Are you ever invited to play with them or join events?<br /><br />Melvin: Not really, and if I had to give a reason, it's that those guys never really liked the Jerry Garcia Band. It's no secret. They didn't like us because towards the latter five years, we rained on their parade, you might say. A lot of folks was saying that they didn't like them as much, and were liking us better, and they knew this. We were doing venues that they were doing and they didn't like that. Madison Square Garden and Nassau Colesium were being filled by JGB. So they didn't like the members of our band and tried a number of ways to get Jerry to drop the band. So long story and I'll make it short, we were the band they didn't like. And they probably even today don't like the fact that it's still going, probably because of me, so they don't touch me. They got every keyboardist in the world....<br /><br />How can you not like Melvin?!!<br /><br />Melvin: ...they go all the way around me, but they don't touch me.<br /><br />DNA: And thats a long way to go around!<br /><br />Melvin: It is what it is.DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-42704758246882306552008-07-25T19:46:00.000-07:002009-05-27T00:01:09.608-07:00Mickey Hart InterviewWhat’s That Up Ahead?: An Interview With Mickey Hart<br />By DNA<br /><br /><br />It was with anticipation and deep honor that I got to interview <a href="http://www.mickeyhart.net/Pages/discography.html">Mickey Hart</a>. There isn’t much that I can tell you about the man that you don’t already know. I mean what can I say, Mickey is one <a href="http://badazzmofo.com/">bad-ass mofo</a>!! I do remember two distinct stories about Mickey that might help you understand my fondness for the guy though. <br />The place was <a href="http://www.nassaucoliseum.com/">Nassau Coliseum</a>, Long Island during the <a href="http://www.paperdollreview.com/catalog/images/family1980s.jpg">early eighties</a>. It was that <a href="http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/29/68/22616829.jpg">phase of tour</a> when many, and I mean many, people would go in the hallways during drums. Yes fans, you know it’s true. There was a long stretch you treated drums like you treat Dylan. You split till it’s over. (By the way, Dylan rules!) I worked my way to one of those killer seats right behind the drums that always seemed to be open, but yet was one of the best places to watch the band in the Coliseum. Mickey just finished a drum solo that was godly. Parish placed a towel on Mickey’s shoulders and led him off the stage. I realized that this I had just witnessed the best drum set ever, the most tapped in <a href="http://www.primalconnection.org/NewsLetrV1I1/index.html">primal rhythm</a> I had ever seen. Of course for Mickey, it was just another night on the road. <br /> The second story actually shows me to be a <a href="http://www.quizrocket.com/crazy-test/">crazy</a> man. It involved a later eighties show at the other receptacle of huge shows, Oakland Coliseum. I found myself during drums, in the midst of a gigantic <a href="http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PF_New%5C142007/PF_2333737~Cloning-Dna-Male-Figure-with-Dna-Strand-Posters.jpg">DNA strand</a> that was running in opposite directions into infinity. And inside that cockpit of genetic material was Mickey Hart working his magic and keeping it real. Whew! Lock me up and throw away the key. I am certified.<br /> It’s officially one year I have been writing for you all at <a href="http://jambands.com/">Jambands.Com</a>, and I want you to know that I think of you all as my friends and that even though I am supremely opinionated in my head, that in my heart, I’m all about “One Love.” With that disclaimer out of the way, let the opinions begin. The Dead were the most important band of the century. They were a group of musicians who wrote awesome tunes, jammed better than anyone since Smuckers, and were brilliant and interesting each in their own right. They were also more than a band. They were midwives to change, they were cheerleaders for weirdness, they were a tribal syncopation that allowed transcendent splendor. These facts are irrefutable and I will openly debate anyone who disagrees. So, bring it on!<br /> Since Garcia died, I have been reticent to make many comments on how I feel about the scene. Basically, if The Dead were a signpost to new space, then the future awaits us beyond the signs, pointing fingers and remnant parts. On that note, enter this interview with an open mind, as I seek to explore the weirdness of it all with Mickey Hart.<br />http://www.blogger.com/img/gl.link.gif<br /><br /><br />I was testing the equipment to make sure the tape deck worked.<br />DNA: Mickey I’d just like to say it’s an honor to be talking with you, I’m a big fan, I’ve always been a big fan and I will continue to be a big fan.<br /><br /><br />“Well I ain’t often right”<br /><br />My phone rings:<br />Mickey Hart: DNA this is Mickey are you ready?<br />DNA: I thought it was at noon.<br />Mickey: Well what time is it?<br />DNA: Uhm, 11:30. I was just writing down a bunch of questions<br />Mickey: Well that’s close enough--do you want me to call you back?<br />DNA: No, I’m ready, I’m excited how are you doing?<br />Mickey: Good, let’s rock.<br />DNA: Briefly, I followed you around from '78 till '92 and saw about 500 dead shows and side projects.<br />Mickey: Oh my god, holy Jesus.<br /><br /><br />“But I’ve never been wrong”<br /><br />DNA: I was dedicated. I ended up getting my Masters from Sonoma State in Transpersonal Psychology.<br />Mickey: Do you know <a href="http://stanleykrippner.weebly.com/biography.html">Stanley Krippner</a>?<br />DNA: I happen to have a signed copy of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Song-Siren-Parapsychological-Stanley-Krippner/dp/0060647868">Song of the Sirens</a> right here in my hands. So my first question would be about the <a href="http://www.dead.net/archives/1971/clippings/press-clip-source-unknown">ESP experiment</a> that the Dead were involved with at the Capitol Theater back in 1971. And I know that shows get a bit fuzzy over the years…..<br />Mickey: NO, I remember it quite vividly.<br />DNA: How was it you got involved in that exactly?<br />Mickey: Well at the time Stanley was the director of the <a href="http://www.espresearch.com/dreamtelepathy/">dream laboratory</a> in Brooklyn in New York City. He was conducting studies in <a href="http://stanleykrippner.weebly.com/a-pilot-study-in-dream-telepathy-with-the-grateful-dead.html">dream telepathy</a> and he was using psychedelics in that research. This was before '71 though…<br />DNA: It started in 1970 with <a href="http://www.richiehavens.com/rphbio.htm">Richie Havens</a>.<br />Mickey: Richie was one of the sleepers.<br />DNA: And the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osRM14sBZuY">Holy Modal Rounders</a>.<br />Mickey: That’s right. So Stanley was working there using mind expanding drugs, working <a href="http://hobbyphotographytips.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/kirlianphotography.jpg">Kirlian photography</a> and all kinds of stuff. Stanley was a pioneer, a circumnavigator and he was fond of the Grateful Dead. I met him at a party for the great Indian drummer. That is where we met and we became great friends. Eventually Garcia, Stanley and I got into a conversation where Garcia proposed the experiment. A plan got formulated where there would be a group of sleepers at the Dream Lab and we would ask the audience to concentrate on an image that was presented behind us. Our idea was to send that imagery to the sleepers via telepathy. We did the experiment for five or six nights and got like five direct hits. The sleepers accurately described the image that was behind the wall during REM. It was a very powerful night. The images were selected at random by being pulled out of a hat. It was a great moment.<br />DNA: Did you ever do anything like that again?<br />Mickey: No, we never repeated that experiment again. I know that other people have done similar events, but you’ll have to research that one.<br /><br /><br />“Seldom turns out the way it does in the song”<br /><br />DNA: I did an interview with <a href="http://newsite.uri-geller.com/en/about_uri">Uri Geller</a> (Israeli Psychic) yesterday so I’m on an ESP kick right now.<br />Mickey: Well it is fascinating. Our main focus was the idea of group mind. We saw the Grateful Dead as a group mind and one in which were able to share with the audience. We were able to take an image and project it into the audience and send it to receptive receivers. It proved a lot on a lot of levels.<br /><br /><br />“In the strangest of places if you look at it right”<br /><br />DNA: I attended the Ritual and Rapture lecture that featured you, Garcia and Joseph Campbell. I recall a Deadhead asking Garcia about telepathy at Dead shows. His question was something like, “There are times at a show when my friends and I will think of a certain song and you will play it, and we know you know.” Garcia’s response was, “That’s pee-pee.” (anyone out there have a tape of this?)<br />Mickey: He said what?!<br />DNA: He said that people who he knew weren’t crazy had told him similar things. But it had never been proven to him beyond satisfactorily. He said it was pee-pee.<br />Mickey: I happen to agree with Garcia, though I wouldn’t call it pee-pee. I would call it unproven. My hypothesis is that it’s not impossible, it is within the realm of possibility. And certain people that are connected on one level or another can receive messages, synchronicity, entrainment or being in the flow. I believe that when people’s rhythms are locked they have something deep in common it happens. My question is this, “I know it happens, but can you prove it?” There’s just no conclusive proof. All through my life I’ve had people where I’ve called them up and they have picked up the phone without it ringing. I just had an interesting thing happen with Jean Campbell, Joe Campbell's wife. I hadn’t talked to Jeanie for a year and half or two years, and I just called her up a couple of weeks ago. I was like, “Hi, Jean, this is Mickey.” “Mickey, I just dreamed of you last night.” I was like, “Jean, has that happened before,” and she said, “No.” These are the kinds of things that make you wonder. She said, “I had a dream last night that I should call you.” We just kind of hung there for a moment. It just isn’t that unusual for people that are connected. <br />DNA: That’s a grounding experience, bad science, but a good anchor.<br />Mickey: <a href="http://gratefuldeadmusic.com/band/robert-hunter">Hunter</a> and I once wrote a song once, completely separate. He wrote the words and I wrote the music, but when we put them together they were completely identical. There was absolutely no way that either one of us could have heard the other's composition. He never played it in front of anyone and I never played it front of anyone. He swore that I stole his music, but we looked at it and it would have been impossible to ever have either of us know what the other was thinking. Things like that happen all the time in a world where people are connected.<br />DNA: Grateful minds think alike.<br />Mickey: Definitely Synchronous minds.<br /><br /><br />“Once in a while you get shown the light”<br /><br />DNA: I interviewed Apollo 12 astronaut <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhNdxdveK7c">Edgar Mitchell</a>. He said he was having lunch with Uri Geller and was telling Uri that he was disappointed that Uri resorted to trickery so much to prove that ESP existed. When all of a sudden there was a plop in his soup and it was a tie clip he had lost ten years before halfway across the country.<br />Mickey: I mean c’mon, Uri Geller is a real guy, he definitely is a showman, a circus performer but you cannot deny his psychic powers. That psychic stuff has been totally proven. I met him once and he was a bit of a jerk. Though that does not take away from his talent.<br />DNA: Would you consider Uri a contemporary Shaman? Or, where do we find people in our society that can link up with the spirit world?<br />Mickey: He has Shamanistic powers, but does he use it for the betterment of the world, I don’t think so. Mostly I see him as a vaudeville performer. I don’t see him making a better world, do you?<br />DNA: Not unless he reads my mind and mails me a million bucks. That would make my world better.<br />Mickey: Is he a healer, a medicine man?<br />DNA: In his new book, he talks about how his castle in England is often filled with kids from a cancer ward of hospital. Apparently he performs healings on them.<br />Mickey: Well there you go.<br />DNA: Where is the contemporary of <a href="http://www.unexplainedstuff.com/Mediums-and-Mystics/Rolling-Thunder.html">Rolling Thunder</a>? Is there a war on Shamanism?<br />Mickey: There has always been a war on Shamanism. It is an edge science, and anybody who is on the edge is always suspect. For the individual who is there, it doesn’t always work. It’s living your life by the seat of your pants. Whenever you deal with non-scientific experimentation you’re going to find Shamans. The word connotes “thinker.” It’s part of the lexicon, he doesn’t have to be a healer, he could be a faker.<br />DNA: Was Rolling Thunder genuine?<br />Mickey: Rolling Thunder was the real deal. I’ve witnessed it with my own eyes so there is no question about it. Of course he surrounded himself with a lot of Mumbo Jumbo as well, as all Shaman. So much of Shamans is the show, the act. You have to prepare. Belief is such a big part of Shamanism, you have win the persons confidence to heal. Or invade if it’s surgery, or even if it’s a mental healing, you must prepare the person for induction. Typically, rhythm, song or vibration, or magical charms do it. It’s mental and physical and there are many different approaches to doctoring and each one of them has their own tool kit. Rolling Thunder for the most part was herbal based and it worked. I picked herbs with him and he was a genius in that field. Stanley and I were also good friends with Rolling Thunder.<br />DNA: So where is the contemporary Shaman?<br />Mickey: Everywhere. Women are taking a big step forward and coming on strong. Musicians and artists or anyone who deals with the spirit world has potential. We haven’t cracked the code of DNA yet. Sorry, I hate to say that word.<br />DNA: That’s all right, I get a dime anyone says it.<br />Mickey: Science is starting to weigh in on this topic though. At a recent conference in New York on Music on the Brain, there was work done on what a brain looks like before and after an auditory driving experience and how vibration effects brainwaves. There is a scientific study being done in Santa Cruz called the Heart Math. What they are finding is that the heart isn’t just an organ that pumps blood, but it also pumps emotional content. And when you find pure science starting to study the physics of vibration, it isn’t long before they find the metaphysics.<br />DNA: So Science is mapping the human body in how it relates to environment, but also in the way it relates to consciousness.<br />Mickey: Yes, science is reinforcing and codifying the shaman way. It comes down to how do we create trance on a daily basis. What is the rhythm, what’s the rate? We’re trying to tune into the frequency so we can duplicate the experience and do it twice. Again, at the moment we’re doing it by the seat of our pants, but this century will crack that code.<br />DNA: If technological advances are often co-opted by the government for the purpose of war, do you see trance being used in that way?<br />Mickey: I don’t think so. It will be a war all right, but it will be a war of the minds and fight for the spirit world. There will be battles fought, but nothing we’re used to. I see the first application being used for medicine and therapy.<br /><br /><br /><br />“Rings on her finger and bells on her toes”<br /><br />DNA: If we presuppose that the Drum is an instrument that elicits trance and can create the environment for time travel, in the sense that it could physically move you to another time, where would you put yourself. <br />Mickey: I would go back to the Paleolithic. I’m a big fan of first man; I would have liked to have seen what it was like when we first came together as humans. I’ve already experienced the fifties and the sixties; I know what that’s like. Either that or the turn of the century, those are two times that hold great interest for me: The dawn of the Industrial age and the dawn of man. I would also like to go back to Congo Square at the turn of the century. About 1890 New Orleans, that is a fascinating time, for it is the birth of music in our country. Ya know, I would really like to see some Temple caves about 9000 BC as well.<br />DNA: What I find interesting about Congo Square and your thought about it being the birthplace of our music. Couldn’t’ it be argued that at that time there was great divine intervention and that all our music, Blues, Jazz, Rock and Roll comes from the Spirit World.<br />Mickey: Absolutely. It was where the Spirit Music of Western Africa came and hit our shore. At the end of the Haitian Revolution at the end of the 1700’s, it ended up in Congo Square, and that was it, baby. That’s where it all started. That’s when the slaves were given back their instruments to play on Sundays. That was the only day they were allowed to go into trance. Where do you think we got Rock and Roll, Big bands and Jazz? It all that came through Haiti and eventually to New Orleans. The birthplace of the cool.<br />DNA: Is cool more than attitude?<br />Mickey: Attitude is a big part of it. But they also brought the instruments and the most powerful rhythms on the planet. All of the vodon stuff came with it.<br />DNA: I find it interesting that if you see divine providence in the thousands of year preceding New Orleans, whether Mohammed, Jesus, Moses or what have you, spirit came in words. But then suddenly it descended through rhythms and it is music that has been the backbone of the last 110 years.<br />Mickey: Words do not entrance you on a physical level, they can on a mental level. It’s about the vibration.<br /><br /><br />“The sky was yellow, the sun was blue”<br /><br /><br />DNA: Well let me ask one final question here.<br />Mickey: This is the strangest interview I’ve had for while, but it’s nice. I’m OK with it.<br />DNA: Well I followed you around for so long, this is my shot. Twilight Zone episodes, when are they coming back?<br />Mickey: Shit, I have no idea.<br />DNA: I know you pioneered 3D holographic sound for those episodes and now with DVD and home sound systems, the full effects can really be seen.<br />Mickey: I spent three weeks in a row at the University of Illinois, at Northwestern, trying to make sound move in mono. We had a giant computer that did create sound that had movement in a holographic way. After I did get vertical and horizontal movement, CBS didn’t follow through on the transmission, so it became a mute point. Wow, I had forgotten all about that. I spent three weeks in this little room. Every time I made an update, it took all night for the computers for the main frame computers to crunch it. I had to do it all in little pieces. The theme is actually holophonic. It works great in 5.1. <br />DNA: When it was first on, I would sit an inch away from the TV set and listen for the sound to move.<br />Mickey: For a while there we got it to the point where the sound seemed like it wasn’t coming out of the speakers. It was so time consuming and costly back then. It was the first of it’s kind. I really like the episode called Grandma, written by Harlan Ellison. I was the music designer and the set designer on it. I worked on 79 of those episodes. Wow, man thanks for reminding me, we should re-release those suckers.<br /><br />(all lyrics from Scarlet Begonia. Author Robert Hunter. Copyright Ice Nine Publishing)<br /><br />DNA is an International Journalist who lives in Northern California with his wife and three cats. He is currently running for Mayor and getting involved in the Green Party.DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-79878670285115412692008-07-14T21:21:00.000-07:002008-07-27T19:51:08.150-07:00Joe Firmage Interview: Living Life Out Loud(Originally published in one of my rags, HUMP Megazine)<br /><br />Welcome Dear Humpers, welcome. Over the last two years I have attempted to take you into the minds of some of the most creative and influential folks of the 20th century. I feel that we are on the edge of great changes, and my pursuit of new knowledge is an attempt to prepare us all for the upcoming new millenium.<br /><br /> If any of you are fans of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Bell">Art Bell</a> you might recognize our next guest. Joe Firmage is a highly controversial figure, whose personal life has been as amazing as his recent spiritual revelations. Having been raised a Mormon, Joe left the flock with his father when he was 18. Skilled in science and computers he started a software company out of high school that was acquired by Novell for $24 million dollars. Now in his mid-twenties Joe started US Web, the prestigious server whose clients include Levi-Strauss, Nike and Apple. US Web is currently valued at 2 billion dollars. After choking on that figure, fathom this. Joe was visited by an Alien/Angel in October 1988 who engaged Joe in an in-depth conversation about warp drives and time travel. This experience spurred Joe to write a 600 page on line book that summarizes the entire history of mankind, including our origins and ultimate destiny! Why would a short-haired straight looking former Mormon risk his reputation with such heretical out pouring, why indeed.<br /><br />I entered into our conversation knowing that we had only 20 minutes to tie it all together. I was hesitant to pursue a line of questioning that would focus on Joe’s visitation by an Alien. I’ve spent too much of my life squandering time talking about aliens and the “what ifs,” of our ancestral heritage and future. I was more interested in if Joe Firmage was (I know this sounds stupid) “a nice guy.” I was impressed by Joe’s sincerity and lack of pompousness and was grateful that the guy even gave me the time of day. So anyhew, here it is in all its glory, my first interview with a billionaire who was visited by ET.<br /><br /><a href="http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x95/votedna/?action=view¤t=joefirmage.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x95/votedna/joefirmage.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><br /><br /><br />Joe firmage interview<br /><br />HUMP: Hi Joe, this is DNA in Chico, California.<br />Joe: Hi. How are you?<br />HUMP: I’m doing pretty good. How are you?<br />Joe: Good.<br />HUMP: You lead a pretty busy life, huh?<br />Joe: Oh God, yes. <br />HUMP: Um, and we’ve got a short amount of time, and I’ve been reading your online book, and plowing through it, and, I mean, one of the things I’m amazed at is just the volume of knowledge, and just the level of organization. And the amount of work that went into writing it. And I was curious about how you devoted, I mean, it sounds like you’re doing stuff right now, and that you’re a busy guy, how do you take time out to write a book like this? <br />Joe: Well, it was an effort. Sleepless nights. First off, it was actually a collaborative effort. About 10 co-authors, whose works I integrated, and added my own integrating text, and glue, if you will, to hold the entire work together. Uh, it was a project that leveraged some of the best thinking of 10 of the best thinkers out there across the planet. Physics, history, spiritual studies and such. And, I think that the ultimate purpose of the online book is to present an evolving picture of this entire domain as it becomes clearer and clearer and clearer over the next few years. So its essentially an online starting point for what I expect to be a perpetual story that will become more and more comprehensive and more and more accurate as time goes on.<br /><br />HUMP: I don’t think that takes away from the validity of, I mean, maybe, correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems to me that the initial skeleton of the story and the vision of the story is singularly your idea.<br />Joe: That’s my part. My part is the… about half the text is mine.<br />HUMP: Right.<br />Joe: And the skeleton, if you will, that organizes it as it is, is my contribution. I’m obviously the principle editor of this, and so, but it’s a project that will continue forever, basically. As long as I’m around. And that is, in view of the fact that the scale of the effort required to tell a story of this magnitude really does extend on for years and years and years and years in the future.<br />HUMP: Yeah, to tell a story that encompasses everything is going to be hard to put within two covers (laughs). <br />Joe: Precisely. And besides that, one of the objectives here is to show how this story evolves over time. Those of us who study it believe that sometime in the next perhaps decade of so, something very significant is going to happen. <br />HUMP: Sure.<br />Joe: And plotting the trajectory that we take as we hurtle towards that date, is very interesting to write about, right? So that ten years or twenty years from now you can sort of go back and look and see how the story evolved. What we came to understand. What was wrong and what was right. I’m most confident about the overall hypothesis, which is expressed on the first page of the site, or the Table of Contents page, that is. That sort of tells the poetic story. <br />HUMP: I’m well aware of the more mystic, esoteric, gnostic side of things, but to me, plowing through this online book is like reading a version of our past history that was not taught in school. Like the stories of slavery, or the stories of one civilization conquering another, and the spoils of war, and all that is so fascinating, yet its not really a mystic knowledge, but it is a hidden or gnostic truth. <br />Joe: That’s exactly right. From my perspective, there is a history of humanity. There is a history. And from my perspective, many of the mythic traditions have been given the title ‘myth’ because we have presumed that they were imagined. I believe that many of our mythic histories have been imagined, and have been essentially constructions of our fantasy. But on the other hand, I also believe, unlike most in the science community, that new discoveries in physics suggest that some of those ancient myths may well in fact have a very important basis in hard reality. A reality that we may just now be coming prepared to grasp. Uh, I mean, the concept of us joining a cosmic civilization, is so sweeping, so staggering and so completely profound in its impact to human civilization, as to be impossible to overstate. <br />HUMP: Right.<br />Joe: That’s the type of understanding that it makes all the sense in the world to believe takes millennia to come to. In a stable and well-ordered and comprehensive manner. Imagine, for the sake of discussion, that we discover gravitational propulsion sometime in the next decade. That isn’t the type of discovery that is even meaningful, intellectually, to human beings merely one hundred years earlier. So when you look at the grand march of discoveries in science, I believe they point to a certain path. And it happens to be the same path that many mystical traditions point to. That’s what has me so captivated here. And that’s what has me convinced that there are both scientific and there are spiritual components to the future that we face.<br />HUMP: I’m not in your shoes, and I can’t imagine what it would be like to be you, but it would seem to me that, with your amazing touch for business, and your first-hand encounter with ‘something’, and also the way that this book is written, that, I mean, how do you escape from, like, a Messiah complex kind of thing? Where, it would seem at times you must feel overwhelming, like, its your mission to spread this word. You have the resources to do it. You know what I mean? Like, how do you maintain, even just in the course of a busy day, how do you maintain staying grounded, to this planet? I mean, does it seem at times like, you know, there’s an urgency to get the message out? <br />Joe: It’s a very fine line to walk. There’s an enormous weight on my shoulders to make sure that whatever I do, I do right. One of the things I’ve learned, however, is a very profound respect for humility. And the fact that we’re all in this ship together. And we each have a vital role to play. Just different roles. I’ve tried to avoid the sort of messianic overtones of this role. The obvious perception on the part of some is that that’s where the motivation for this all comes from. But the reality is that the circumstance that I find myself in is what it is. I can’t change it. I chose the path that I’ve chosen because I think that its, frankly, the only kind of path that is going to make happen the kind of changes to human civilization that must be made if we’re to survive through the next century. So there are fundamental civilization-shaping things about my mission with ISSO. There’s no question about that. Those are the types of activities that reach to the deepest core of science, to the deepest core of spirituality, and that will have an impact, hopefully, in a very profound and positive way on humanity as a whole. There are a lot of people in human history who have had that kind of impact, so I just want people to understand I’m one of many. I want to be one of many. I want to collaborate with, and frankly, I must collaborate with and have the support of many, many, many people, because despite what is sort of presumed about me, I don’t have the resources to do this by myself. And I probably don’t even have the energy (laughs). I certainly don’t have the energy to do it by myself.<br />HUMP: I’m not a big fan of psychoanalysis, and I think that those terms are even thrown in to our society to stop people from speaking out. So, I always wonder, why don’t more people who have the resources, speak out? And then you go, “Well, they don’t want to be labeled a radical or a rebel or a nut, or a messiah complex person.” There are people who have no resources saying similar things as you, but no one listens to them because they have no way to get their message out. So I admire the fact that you’re taking a stand, because no matter what happens, it still takes guts to get out and say something. Even if it’s not right.<br />Joe: That, I agree with. It is frankly one of the great learnings that I’m pretty glad I learned while I’m still young enough to live it, is to try to live life out loud. You know, just take more courageous stands. I mean, really, what is life about? Do you really want to live your life sort of hiding away in the little hole that society has creating for you? Or do you want to try to make a difference, take some risks, sometimes fall flat on your face and sometimes leap beyond even where you thought you might? That’s something that I genuinely hope others will do. I would absolutely love to be joined in this endeavor by other, more brilliant, more capable, more articulate people, who have their own insights to share in this quest.<br />HUMP: Mm. I mean, I think the alien part of the story, although within the context that it is the beginning point and the end point in a lot of ways, it almost can be removed from the whole text. It kind of kills the point, but in the book there is so much information about history and historical facts, and I think the ultimate questions are, “Where do we come from?” and “Where are we going?”.<br />Joe: Yeah, I mean, all too often today, we forget to ask these kind of questions. “What exactly is our purpose?” <br />HUMP: Right.<br />Joe: “Why is there anything as opposed to nothing?”<br />HUMP: Right.<br />Joe: You know, these are the obvious philosophical questions that have remained unanswered for a long, long, long time. Science has not come much closer to answering these ultimate questions. And that fact is something that I’m trying to help rectify.<br />HUMP: There are a lot of little points in the book that might be glossed over, that I think are so crucial. There’s a quote about, the thing not to worry about is the extremists that are outside, the paranoid nuts who will blow up a building, but the extremists that are inside the political system. They’re the ones who can really do the most damage.<br />Joe: Oh yeah. I mean, a bad policy decision can have far more deleterious impact on human beings in this country that some nut who blows up a building. When you make, for example, decisions about empowerment zones or race relations, or whatever, you’re essentially making decisions with similar impact. It occurs in slow motion, right, and it occurs without the fanfare because of that, so they’re harder to see, but from my perspective, when, as I say in the book on several occasions, murderers murder whether it occurs at the end of a barrel of a gun or at the end of a ballpoint pen. Where you have decisions that impact people on a policy level, the moral and ethical consequences are the same, regardless of whether it happens in one minute or one year. And it’s that sort of degree of sophistication in our public policy, that I think is long overdue. Now, one of the big issues that sticks in my craw, that is not much a part of the book, but probably will be a part of future writings, is the catastrophic war on drugs. It’s just an absolute catastrophe. It is one of the colossal policy mistakes of the late Twentieth century. And its served to imprison probably half a million young people, for type of relatively innocent exploration and, you know, just basically play, that we all know, most of the politicians engaged in (laughs), or engage in. I find this whole George W. Bush debate humorous. That’s the type of social policy that has real impact. That gets thrown under sound bytes and glitsy marketing campaigns, and rather ill-informed and unscientific moral arguments. So, the real challenge that I face is in integrating a scientific world view with a spiritual world view. And I’m totally convinced that the two are entirely compatible. In fact, they’re so compatible, they’re bedmates. They need each other. Spirituality needs the perfection of truth that scientific methodology affords. Science needs to remember that what it does is measure. It does not, it is not the creative thing. It measures the created thing. Whether you’re talking about physics or chemistry or geology or biology, or psychology, or any of the scientific disciplines. Every one of them share the common, basic fact that what they do is measure phenomena. But the most fantastic and beautiful point is that the phenomena exist. Atoms exist. Stars exist. Galaxies exist. Planets exist. Biological beings exist. <br />HUMP: During my younger days (laughs), you know, when I had a head full of steam I really lived in more of the mythic world. I think it’s a frightening thing for the establishment to, although we’re a very Christian society and an “In God We Trust” gang, there’s not a whole lot of questioning of religion. If you have a world view that explores world myth, right away you see parallels between Christianity and a thousand other religions. You can draw a line through humanity, showing different symbols of different cultures, explaining how we’re all related spiritually. Spirituality, I feel, follows similar laws of evolution. I think that questioning religion is as frightening to the establishment as aliens landing on the White House lawn. Because it changes everything. It’s a shaking up of the establishment. Everything we know.<br />Joe: I totally agree with you.<br />HUMP: Bush wanted to have a ‘One World Order’, so did Reagan. But what we really need is a ‘One World View’. And I think that’s what your book’s trying to establish. And trying to draw parallel lines.<br />Joe: In fact, it’s basically saying, “When you reach a common world view at a fundamental level, what you get is the worship of diversity.” You transform the view of a difference from me to you, from a source of conflict to a source to treasure. Where your different habits, your different beliefs, your different qualities are something that I seek out in you. As opposed to attempt to eviscerate. And that’s, if I was to describe the ultimate entological perspective, it would be that. Where diversity is the point of unity, rather than the point of difference, or conflict.DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-66535613383976067332008-07-14T21:11:00.001-07:002009-05-26T23:28:37.940-07:00Ken Kesey Interview: The Kool Aid Cybertest(Originally printed in one of my rags, HUMP Megazine)<br /><br /><br />Here’s a quick summation of how we have gotten to this point in our iconoclastic culture: WW11spawned the Beats, the Beats spawned the Hippies, The Hippies spawned the Yippies, The Yippies spawned the Yuppies and now we’re stuck with Woodstock 99: “Dyed, Tattooed and Ready to Rock,” ! <br /><br />Despite societies incessant desire to crush the sacred, I have always been intrigued by the mystique, the transcendent and the sublime. And in my mind nobody has personified this as clearly in the last couple of generations than Ken Kesey. Best known for being a famous author (One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest, Sometimes a Great Notion etc..), Kesey is also the celebrated central character in Tom Wolfes’s Kool Aid Acid Test. While Wolfe’s book strayed from reality into swirling poetic detail, Kesey’s portrayal as a somewhat reluctant leader among his generation seemed accurate.<br /><br /> <br />Kesey’s Acid Tests were a predecessor to today’s Rave scene and an ancestor of the Greek Elusion Mysteries. The Tests were often put on in unannounced locations that could only be accessed through secret phone numbers or by some instinctual homing device. Several of the Acid Tests, such as the Longshoreman’s Ball, were blueprints for larger Raves known as Massive’s, hugely attended (10,000 or more people) events, that were advertised with the most colorful flyers ever seen till that date. Acid Tests were fueled by music, lights, colorful clothing, themes, and an “anything goes, the freakier the better,” atmosphere. <br /><br />The Acid Tests broke down the barrier between audience and performer and made many of the people who participated, stars. The Tests were psychological and social experiment zones where new thoughts and ways of acting were explored and initiated and in the midst of it all was Kesey.<br /><br />Kesey’s gang, reveled under the monikor of “Pranksters.” Simply put, Pranksters had an agenda to seek out new experiences and go where no wo/man has gone before. Inner dimensions of the mind were for the taking by the Pranksters, and even now you’ll find, while wandering around the inside of your head, a day-glo tag that says, “Kesey was here.”<br /><br />True to form, Kesey found that the Acid Tests worked best in non-locational atmoshperes . With earnings from his literary career he bought a school bus, painted it like a cross between Bosch and Dali, loaded it up with friends, had Neal Cassidy (the infamous Dean in Kerouac’s On The Road) drive it, and went on a cross country jaunt that changed the lives of all that came in touch with the aptly named “Furthur” bus.<br /><br />Recently Kesey loaded up “Furthur” and headed out to European soil in search of the myth’s of Merlin. Continuing the quest for the immortal soul of humanity under the guise of fun, and the pursuit of happiness, Kesey is man who lives by his passion.<br />This interview was conducted via e-mail. You’ll find that most of the interview is my text, with Kesey tossing in apt answers when the mood struck him. So, get ready to take a flight with this fanboy, as we HUMP with the maestro of mayhem, the curator of chaos, and the pundit of pranksters, Ken Kesey…….<br /><br />HUMP- <br /> How shall we start?<br /> <br /><br /><br /><br />KK-<br /> Best way is just ask a<br /> question over e-mail, get<br /> an answer, ask another and<br /> so on till we get tired of<br /> each other. Takes longer<br /> but the result is shorter.<br /> <br /><br />HUMP-A core belief of yours that I have always admired is the importance<br />of family. From the Pranksters to the Creamery, the wholeness and value<br />of family has seemed to be the gel that has held your vision together.<br />Were you reared by your parents in this way of thinking, or, was it a<br />way of doing things that grew organically?<br /><br />KK- (Kesey does not answer, interviewer is alarmed but pushes on)<br /><br /><br />HUMP- Perhaps I started to far back in my questions, as I originally<br />mentioned that we could talk about your search for Merlin. But my<br />excitement at having a chance to pester you with questions led me to go<br />waaay back in your history. So let me regroup. I did my Master's work in<br />Transpersonal Psychology, which is a focused study on building a bridge<br />between Eastern and Western thought. Do you feel that it is a natural<br />evolution of society to seek out a ruler, or a King, that has some sort<br />of grace of divinity? If anything, Bill Clintons reign has proven that<br />the President of the US is, and always will be, human, complete with all<br />the frailties and imperfections that comes with that form. Perhaps I was<br />brainwashed by Tom Wolfe, but it seems that the Pranksters had a<br />reverence for the mystique. Do you feel the emergence of Merlin could<br />shift our countries infatuation with the profane (i.e. jerry springer,<br />zippergate) and move it towards the profound?<br /><br /><br />KK-<br /> HUMP is here, enjoying<br /> lofty status by the crapper.<br /> (interviewer now wonders, if Kesey has been replaced by an artificial intelligence device used to ward off annoying zine editors)<br /><br /><br />HUMP-<br /> I'm flattered, one of our slogans is "Breakfast of Champions: HUMP &<br />Dump."<br />You know, besides being a great fan of your novels, I'm entranced by<br />your mystique. I'm currently reading Paul Krassners autobiography again,<br />and I can't help but feel that people like Paul and yourself, have<br />helped define our future. Often times when I speak with Rock Stars, they<br />seem to be so helplessly caught in the middle of things that they cannot<br />see their greater effect on society. Do you perceive yourself as<br />anything but an author trying to tell a good yarn? Don't be modest on my<br />account.<br /> <br /><br /><br /><br />KK- I try to be a warrior,<br /> like my heros. And writing<br /> is just one blade on my <br /> Swiss Army samuri sword.<br /> --kk<br /><br /><br /><br />HUMP-<br />I can see that role assignment! That is one thing i find compelling<br />about your books, is that, for me there is a definite psychodrama going<br />on while I read your works. There is a movie going on in my head during<br />the entire reading. It's funny that most folks, if they see a movie of a<br />book first, then when they read the book, feel as if the book isn't as<br />good as the movie, and vice versa. But, with Cuckoo's Nest, there was<br />total acclaim for both projects. With Hollywoods recycling of projects,<br />have you been approached yet on "re-doing" Cuckoo's Nest? Would you ever<br />consider "re-doing" Great Notion?<br /><br /><br /> <br /><br />KK- I actually first wrote<br /> it as a screenplay. It <br /> was to have starred Taj <br /> Mahal. Maybe it'll happen...<br /> --kk<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />HUMP-<br />Is it<br />important to get immediate reaction from an audience to your works, as<br />opposed to the solitary work of writing? I've seen you perform and never<br />before have I seen a happier storyteller. Do you find the oratory to be<br />as satisfying as the written word?<br /><br /><br /><br /> KK- Storytelling live is<br /><br /> far more gratifying.<br /> --kk<br /><br />HUMP-<br />I've read everyone of your books , AI agree that<br />your writing is put one arm of your arsenal. Who is that you would put<br />in the realm of "heros"? And who in particlicular that is alive and<br />still flapping their wings would you assign the rank of "hero"?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />KK-<br />Neal Young.<br /> <br /><br /><br /><br />HUMP-<br />My buddy just scored Neil Youngs old 16 track sound board, we're<br />hoping there's some 'lost tracks' floating around in it. I told another<br />friend that your reply's have been either a word or two, or a haiku. He<br />said, "yeah but Kesey probably reads your question, goes out to the<br />barn, shovels some dung, mixes the compost, comes in and brews a new pot<br />of tea, smokes a little, finds the coins amongst the debris of the<br />kitchen table and tosses the I-Ching, mossies back to the computer and<br />plinks down a precise answer. Either that or he's just Prankstering your<br />head."<br /> With that in mind, what was it about Neal Cassidy that was most<br />remarkable? We've all heard stories, legends at this point, about his<br />being the "fastest man alive," and his hammer twirling, radio playing<br />and raconteurship.Do you think Cassidy was one of those folks that<br />Abraham Maslow said was able to reack "peak experiences" as a steady<br />diet?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />KK- yep. (interviewer has grave doubts on his choice of profession, considers getting a real job)<br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br />HUMP-<br />Strange how after a carpet bombing of Iraq, an icy chill<br /> sweeps our nation. Hmmm.<br /> OK, I have asked this question several times, several different<br /> ways, and perhaps you have no answer, or perhaps you have not the time<br /> for a seeker of such ideas. In any case.....................When I look<br /> at the Pranksters and the Acid tests, I see a gestalt movement. I'm<br /> reminded of Theodore Sturgeons book MORE THAN HUMAN. There seems to be a<br /> barrel full of monkeys, each trying to push the other over the edge of<br /> what our potenetial of humans is. Can you elaborate on how important<br /> this idea was to those days?<br /> <br /><br />KK-<br /> <br /> In the sixties MEATBALL<br /> fell. Everything was hit<br /> by MEATBALL. Everthing and<br /> everybody. A lotta people <br /> won't cop to it, but they<br /> were hit, nevertheless.<br /> Grace happens, like shit.<br /> You can't do shit to make <br /> it happen, but you can learn<br /> to recognize it.<br /><br /><br /><br />HUMP-<br /> Is there a path you have found that makes you more receptive to<br /> recognizing grace? Is there actual lessons to be learned from Capt.<br /> Marvel, or is it more to be found in spiritual scriptures?<br /> As I waited for my Astrovan to be smogged today, a 70 year old<br /> fellow engaged me in discourse as his trembling hands shook the pages<br /> of the Bible which he had firmly planted between his knees. He said,<br /> "Bill Clinton is obviously a victim of spiritual warfare, demons plague<br /> him, causing him to stray from fidelity.<br /> My wife and I accepted Jesus into our lives 27 years ago (I only wish it<br /> happened sooner). Our nation will not be able to reach a level of<br /> transcendence till we have a leader that has Jesus in his heart." $51<br /> later, I was smogged.<br /><br /><br /><br />KK-<br /> I got my orders from De<br /> Lawd decades ago. I have<br /> never questioned those <br /> orders or doubted that<br /> Authority. I march, <br /> tanglefooted and toe<br /> stubby and sometimes <br /> blind as a peeled <br /> potatoe-- but I march.<br /> <br /><br /><br />HUMP-<br />I'd like to ask a question that might spur some notions. In your<br />quest for Merlin, did you feel that you were seeking only a part of a<br />greater sum? Besides a breakdown of our technologically dependent<br />society, the year 2000 is being billed as the year that yields the<br />return of past hero's (i.e. Merlin, Jesus, Aliens, etc..). Do you think<br />that the arrival of a "higher" being would be an invitation for people<br />to assign their own interperations to the person. Would one mans Merlin,<br />be another mans Jesus, and be yet another mans Alien and on an on. CS<br />Lewis had a character in one of his books named "Psyche" who, when<br />appearing in public, took on the form of each viewers expectations. I<br />believe that in the book "The Martain Chronicles," the aliens also were<br />able to become the person that the viewer wanted to see most. So if you<br />had someone like Merlin, who was close to the Godhead, would they return<br />as Merlin, or as your long lost brother, to each as was needed?<br />Also, I was always intrigued by Nikos Kazantzakis Last Temptation of<br />Christ and the way in which Jesus is portrayed as being so tortured in<br />his psyche. Dreams haunt him and Judas threatens to kick his ass if in<br />fact he cannot pull off a semblance of Messiah-hood. Jesus tries<br />(without success) to not be chosen, to not have voices guide him, to not<br />have to deliver any meaningful messages to the populace. In our modern<br />society, anyone that speaks of the possibility of miracles is either<br />branded a religious nut or a New Ager. And anyone that boasts of being<br />able to perform miracles is either proclaimed (by the DSM111) as loony,<br />or locked in the basement of some Government building and forced to do<br />remote viewing (this is only speculation). It seems that things are set<br />up so that anyone with Messiah tendencies would have to adopt<br />Kazantzakis' script just to stay sane. While this is not a direct<br />question, I have always wondered if you have suspected, as Philip K.<br />Dick suggested, that the Roman Empire never really fell, but just<br />assimilated....?<br /><br /><br /><br /> KK-<br /> Sounds like you're ready<br /> for TWISTER! which is even<br /> more apocalyptic. Check out<br /> Zane's site, HYPERLINK mailto:keyz@key-z.com keyz@key-z.com.<br /><br /><br /><br />And so HUMPers, if you can read between the lines of that interview you are a sure candidate for Acid Test Graduation. So until we march in our gowns and throw our caps in the air, this is your faithful servant saying adieu, farewell and happy trails.DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-43653179535792933692008-07-14T20:47:00.000-07:002009-05-27T00:02:09.037-07:00Interview with BEAR: Sitting on Top of the World(Originally published in one of my rags, HUMP Megazine)<br /><br />For those of you who have never heard of Mr. Augustus Owsley Stanley the Third, I suggest that you start reading about recent history in other places other than Government issued text-books. <br /><br />Owsley has changed the way humanity thinks about things and has been relentless in the way he advocates certain ideas. True to form I found Owsley to be impossible to nail down, but irrefutable in his ideas. If I had to sum up my two years of working on this interview, the one word that comes to mind when I think of Owsley is “persistent.” <br /><br />Unrelenting in his tenacity Owsley comes through loud and clear as one of the clearest voices to come through the last 30 years, unchanged and focused. For those of you who still don’t know Owsley, also known in legend and myth as “Bear”, let me say these few choice words. Owsley made more quality LSD than anyone else on the planet. Owsley shaped the sound of the Grateful Dead more than any other man who twiddled their knobs. If you credit Gates and Job as reponsible for the way that we know ourselves and as creators of the future, you better add Owsleys name to that dynamic duo. For it was Owsley, who should be given some noble title for his efforts, who took the psychedelic bull by the horns and branded him with the three letters that all tyrannical governments (including our own) fear the most, LSD. But wait kids, Owsley is not here to say that the sugar cube will save the day, no, Owsley believes wholeheartedly that the Ice Age is upon us. It will start in the Northern Hemisphere during a winter season and will quickly, very quickly end our little sham, we call civilization.<br /><br />So before we continue into our cyber quest let me say a quick statement to Owsley. “I apologize for any inaccuracies that you feel this interview or introduction might have. My genetic (you might call it lazy) inattention to details is prevalent all through my life and while I am trying to overcome this myopic disadvantage, you were caught in my windmill mind. Thank you for your time and I hope these words find you well and healthy.” <br /><br />And now, like Poncho Villa at Don Quixote’s side, I sidestep towards the leviathan that awaits us at the end of time. A towering grizzely, jaws agape, hunger unsatiated, and ready to HUMP.<br /><br /><br /><br />DNA- I heard that it was a lucid dream that provided the seminal nugget for your current overview of the<br />world. How do you feel that man’s role has facilitated the upcoming Ice Age?<br /><br /><br />BEAR- Sorry to disappoint you, but the dreams of 1982 were the first and the last examples of anything in<br />my nighttime pastimes that were in any way unusual. I have never at any other time had a dream more than once.<br />I am confused as to your query : "man's role in facilitating them", as I thought that I made it quite clear that man has no role in the Ice Age cycle, nor does any of his so-called "pollution" impact on the build up to the cyclone in any manner. No matter how much you would like things to be different, you must, if you choose to survive, leave the Northern Hemisphere.<br /><br />DNA-<br />Got this from a Graham Hancock book: “Albert Einstein investigated the possibility that the weight of the ice-caps, which are not symmetrically distributed around the pole, might cause a displacement. Einstein<br />wrote : The Earth's rotation acts on the unsymmetrically deposited masses, and produces centrifugal<br />momentum that is transmitted to the rigid crust of the Earth. The constantly increasing centrifugal momentum produced this way will, when it reaches a certain point, produce a movement of the Earth's<br />crust over the Earth's body and this will displace the polar regions towards the equator.”<br /><br />BEAR- Nonsense!<br /><br />Einstein would not have said anything of the sort. The mass of the normal polar ice caps is neither unevenly distributed around the poles, nor is it a significant size in reference to the mass of the continental masses. Besides, the continents don't move according to centripetal forces, although 600 million years ago the movement was indeed started by centrifugal forces from the single large continental mass in the south pole, they move by magma welling up in the mid ocean ridges. The continents are approaching the North Pole, not receding from it. Only during the ice age glaciation is the ice mass not evenly arranged around the pole. Even so, we are speaking of masses which are only around a ten-millionth of the mass of the planet, and no way would it affect the rotation.<br /><br /><br />DNA- Hancock talks about 'flash-frozen' mammoths as well as 90-ft. tall fruit trees locked in the permafrost inside the Arctic Circle. Hancock mentions Professor Charles Hapgoods theory that the landmass of Antartica was 2000 miles further north before the last ice age and was moved to its current<br />position due to a massive displacement of the earth's crust. Hapgood says that the layer of earth known as<br />the lithosphere- the thin but rigid outer crust of the planet-could at times be displaced moving as one piece.<br /><br />BEAR- More nonsense.<br /><br />Read my essay. The mammoths frozen by a mist of liquid air is an important proof of my storm<br />mechanism. Their location, which is in Siberia, not Anticarctica, has nothing to do with any shift of poles or ice caps. Antarctica has always contained the South Pole, and the Pole has not moved more than 300<br />miles in millions of years from where it is now. This is also bogus information you are handing me. Let's call him Hapless rather than Hapgood, if you ask me. Or rather:Clueless.<br /><br />Excerpt from essay-<br />I have for the last 17 years been working out the causative mechanism for the initiation of the<br />glacial advance and retreat which has occurred for the last ~2 million years. I have shared some of<br />the theoretical musings with George Kukla of Columbia's Lamont-Doherty lab. He believes that<br />my concept of the causation lying with an atmospheric (meteorological) event is the only currently<br />believable one. All attempts to model theoretical climatic scenarios such as the Milankovitch have<br />failed to present any glaciation.<br /><br />I believe the causation of the glacial masses (which, as we know were not distributed around the<br />North Pole in a symmetrical fashion, but were entirely confined to North America and Western<br />Europe--Siberia was essentially ice free, although quite a bit closer to the pole), came about<br />through a meteorological event, a storm of hemispheric proportions and cataclysmic intensity. I<br />must warn you: the extreme and unusual weather being experienced everywhere in the world at<br />this time is part of the build-up which leads into this "storm", which will result in the next period<br />of ice.<br /><br />DNA- Well, we've been having our own ice age here in Northern California. We had temperatures 40 degrees colder than ever recorded this past winter. The spring had winter conditions when it's usually over a 100 degrees at that time. We've become the Seattle of California. According to NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, "The energy is going from the Earth into the atmosphere. The earth is slowing down." Blame it on El Nino. The heads here are having El Greenio parties.<br /><br />BEAR-<br />The bit about the atmosphere changing the Earth's rotational speed is a bunch of hooey. The total mass of<br />the atmosphere, including the water in the oceans is so small compared with the entire rocky mass of the planet, that no such effects would be possible. Think about it, the entire atmosphere and oceans combined depth is only about 6 miles, and the rock is 8000 miles in diameter, and more than 3 times as dense as water, with a massive metallic core. Somebody is stretching a point pretty far in my estimation. There have long been recognized irregularities in the rotation, but usually they are attributed to the sun and moon's gravitation effects. <br /><br />DNA- Do you know much about ice caps in Antartica melting? I've read that the Larsens Ice Ledge and<br />the Pine Island Glacier melting could cause sea levels to raise 20 feet. <br /><br />BEAR- Of course the polar ice is melting, just as I predicted.<br /><br />No, there is not going to be any noticeable rise- like 20 feet, the Ice Age Storm will come first.<br /><br />The floods and "heat waves" you have read about recently are the result of the heat moving to the poles.<br />The reason there is no global warming (the pan-global satellite readings show a decline in the average<br />global temp of 0.1C since 1979), is that this heat is melting the ice caps.<br /><br />The time is growing short...<br /><br />DNA- Any theories on the Moon harboring life?<br /><br />BEAR- The Moon is the granite mantle of the Earth's crust, except for the bits left behind, which form the<br />continents. The amount represented by the ocean basins is identical to the volume of the Moon, and the<br />Moon has the specific gravity of granite, with no core. The Moon's present rate of regression in orbit, if<br />calculated back to the point of origin at the Earth's surface, calculates the date at 600 million years ago, at the end of the PreCambrian.<br /><br /><br />DNA- That was a very pragmatic answer.<br /><br />BEAR- Is there something wrong with pragmatism?<br /><br />DNA- The films "Armageddon" and "Deep Impact" both deal with asteroids hitting earth. I have a<br />headline from the NY Times that talks about a Giant Asteroid coming towards earth in 2028. It was the<br />front-page headline! I recently read Fingerprints of the Gods by Graham Hancock, in which he talks about<br />previous civilizations on Earth being destroyed by cataclysm. Seems we're all heading for a REAL cliffhanger...........<br /><br />BEAR- <br /><br />The Headline was the result of a miscalculation. I would not worry about rocks from space, the real story<br />is in my essay on the Ice Age. Cataclysms have always occurred, but we are still here. TV is<br />destroying out society, culture and civilization, it is going to be total, and it is happening without any rocks<br />from space. I outline this in my essay on "Children's TV".<br /><br />Excerpt from Essay-<br /><br />There are "windows" of time in which certain skills must be learned by children, and if these windows close, then the child will never learn those skills. So it is that we have all those kids out there who behave as though they were incapable of understanding how to live. They don't, and the scary thing is, it may not be possible now for them to learn. Most people don't understand this. The nearest thing to a description of the effect would be found amongst Marshall MacLuhan's works. So most think I am some sort of ratbag for being against children's TV. They have become dependent upon it to support their lifestyle, like an addictive drug. I have given the whole matter a great deal of thought.<br /><br />I was a TV broadcast engineer for many years, and still hold the highest class of license the US gov't issues. I am old enough so that I first had a TV in my home when I was 13. NO kids in those days had what is now referred to as "dyslexia". Everybody could read. Of course some were much faster and better readers than others, But... EVERYONE could read. Nowadays they claim up to 40% of kids in the US and 50+% in Australia are extremely deficient in reading skills and a significant number can't read at all.<br /><br />The Countess Montessori, who developed a complete structure for teaching based on careful observations of babies and small children, first noted the time slots, or windows, for learning different skills, and incorporated them into her system of schooling. The whole picture is sort of MacLuhanesque, in that it is the activity (or lack thereof), rather than the content which is at the core of the problem. Most people are too taken in by content and so don't understand the effect of the media itself, which as MacLuhan pointed out, is totally independent of content (cf. "Gutenberg Galaxy" and "The Medium is the Message").<br /><br /><br /><br />I am increasingly sure that my ideas expressed in the children's TV essay are the correct reasons for the<br />obvious and widespread breakdown in society. Mothers neglecting or even torturing their kids, kids<br />shooting their classmates, various types of mindless vandalism. Basically these people are acting just like<br />animals, which of course we all are. We are supposed to have a culture laid on over that animal nature<br />which prescribes our behaviour. There seems to be an ever increasing lack of this acculturation, and I for<br />one am most concerned. What other causation can there be?<br /><br /><br />DNA-Since TV is out, are there any books that you find yourself returning to as touchstones?<br /><br />BEAR- What is wrong with your TV?<br /><br />DNA- I am pouring over all your essays again and agree that TV neutralizes children into passive<br />passengers on the bus. Having been weaned on the boob tube, I find myself often returning to its bright<br />colors for security and a way to kill an hour or two. Chris Carters shows (X-file[s] and Millenium) seem to<br />make the hour of viewing eventful, but, although not a child, I still feel that crucial social networking is<br />often wasted for the sake of a "good" show. The only thing "wrong" with my set is that I only get two<br />channels. I've broken down and ordered Cable and fear that many late nights may now be spent watching<br />Senate Sub-committee meetings.<br /><br />BEAR- I guess my essay on kid's TV s is not clear enough. The tube doesn't make them "passive". Quite<br />the reverse, it seems to make them more active when not in front of the tube, but not in a way which is acceptable to our society (don't fidget, Junior). TV watching itself is indeed passive. It does not teach the very young, it steals the time in each of the child's learning windows from the things which must be learned in that time. This is not inducing passivity, rather it creates an unease, and that leads to increased activity, but without proper purpose. The "toolbox" which makes us human is not full of the tools of culture as the child matures, and the animal which we all have within is not suppressed, hence the vandalism and killings (noticeably without remorse).<br /><br />Gangs etc. are also the result of increased lack of cultural restraints on behavior. This gang thing has<br />always been with us to some extent, but was minimal and transitional before the advent of children’s TV.<br />The TV's content and the violence of video games does not have the same effects on a person who is<br />completely acculturated. In that situation the violent actions is seen as a fiction (often humorous as in<br />Schwartzenegger films), and is not taken as a blueprint of a real solution, but as a play with actors. In the<br />unacculturated, the content and the activity of the games is accepted as viable alternative behavior. When I grew up (before TV), kids gathered in age-related groups and had games specific to that age. Now the only thing which gives a sense of belonging to the TV-damaged kids, who no longer know how to play the ancient children's games, is the gangs.<br /><br />DNA- By the way, I found a site about politicians who were born or died on May 21st. In it is your<br />grandfather. They say that he was Governor of Kentucky, while other books that talk about your life only<br />mention your granddad as a Senator.<br /><br />BEAR- My grandfather was one of the remarkable men of his generation. Perhaps the last of the true<br />statesmen, he had one of the most dramatic and accurate memories I have ever known. His knowledge of<br />the law was awesome. Called by many the "Last of the golden-throated orators of the South", his speeches<br />were legendary. Elected a member of Congress, he prosecuted the anti-trust case against Andrew Carnegie<br />of US Steel. Later, in the Senate, while serving on a Senate anti-trust committee, he wrote a new anti-trust act (called the Clayton Act, after the committee chairman). He was also Governor of Kentucky, a family tradition-- his maternal grandfather was Governor Owsley, after whom a county in the state was named.<br /><br />Although a Democrat (he belonged to the now-defunct conservative "Southern Democrats" absorbed into the REpublicans now), he was appointed by Herbert Hoover in '31 to a prestigious international committee<br />for border resources between the US and Canada, the International Joint Committee, and was the "father"<br />of the St. Lawrence Seaway. He retired in 1953 at the age of 86 and lived to 91. He was at the time the most knowledgeable man on the life and philosophy of Thomas Jefferson. His books and papers are archived at the University of Kentucky. I went into court in '67 to remove the A and III from my name to quench the adverse media publicity which claimed I was trading (due to my name), on my grandad's reputation. I was quite fond of my grandfather, but there was no way that I was using him or his name to further my life.<br /><br />DNA- During the recent election in the States, and here in Chico, certain politicians have chose to cling<br />to the bible tighter than to the Constitution. Any thoughts?<br /><br />BEAR - Well, I am not an authority on such things, but you must realize that the Pilgrims (emphasis on<br />"grim") were the founders of the United States of Prejudice. They were so uptight that they were run out of<br />England. Anyway, religious bigotry goes back to the early days of Christianity when they burned people<br />for claiming that Jesus had blue eyes, or some such nonsense. Anyone who hides his or her personal<br />prejudices under the cloak of religious belief is a terrific coward. So far as I know, any sort of mad<br />superstition fits in well in the definition of religion, which is mostly about belief in things which the study<br />of science tells us are falsehoods, so the adherents are immune to any sort of intelligent refutation. I mean, virgin birth? Resurrection? Water into wine? Bodily ascent into "heaven"? if you swallow that stuff, you are ready to add whatever else you like, as none of it has to be provable in any way whatever. It is also a fortress from which to foist your own perversities on others. The best way to deal with people like these is to expose them as pedophiles or some other repugnant aberration. Most of them usually have something to hide, and the quickest way to find out is to hire a private eye to turn it up. One thing heavy Christianity does is twist people up.<br /><br /><br />DNA- When did you know that the Grateful Dead were to be the monsters of rock we now them as today?<br /><br />BEAR-When I first heard the Dead, at the Muir Beach Acid Test, I thought: "They're going to be bigger than the Beatles". And they were.<br /><br />DNA- I am a huge Jorma Kaukonen fan, where do you feel that he exists in the realm of guitar heroes?<br /><br />BEAR- I am old and close friends with Jorma. I have suggested that he and Jack (why not two bassists? Phil plays<br />mostly a baritone line anyway) be added to the remaining band members to revive the Dead. In my<br />estimation he is the best qualified to step into the vacuum left when Jerry died, and is every bit his equal in magic.<br /><br />DNA- I know you helped design the Steal Your Face logo, but did you design the bear with the third eye?<br /><br />BEAR- I didn't design the Dancing Bear [or the Three-eyed Bear], Bob Thomas did both as part of the design for the Bear's Choice Album jacket art. <br /><br />DNA- Do people have garage sales on the weekend in Australia?<br /><br />BEAR- We have all the same sorts of things like yard (same as garage) sales, but our weekend markets are<br />unique, a sort of fleamarket and farmer's market combined, which is held in each town in the region on a different weekend. There are more permanent daily ones in the cities.<br /><br />DNA- How long can one visit in Australia?<br /><br />BEAR- The longest visitor's visa is six months. I think even if you could get a "backpacker's working visa"<br />(not the official name), it might be only good for six months, but you would have to ask the Australian<br />Consulate in LA if you really want to know what sort of visas are on offer at this time. I am a citizen, so I<br />don't know much anymore about visas. You are not allowed to work on a straight tourist's visa.<br /><br />DNA- I wasn’t a big fan of the Other One’s.<br /><br />BEAR-I thought the Shoreline shows were very good, in spite of the poor performance by Kreutzmann.<br />I personally, I think you missed the whole thing, the show was better, than any with Garcia in it for<br />at least the last ten years of the Dead. This band is already better than the last years of the Dead, and will<br />only get better from here on.DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-28785486545157094592008-07-14T20:43:00.000-07:002008-07-27T19:55:43.000-07:00Interview with Social Theorist Mark Dery: Ship of Fools(Originally published in one of my rags, HUMP Megazine)<br /><br /><br />“Though I could not caution all, I still might warn a few.”<br /> -Robert Hunter<br /><br /><br /><br /> One of the unheralded true gurus, or teachers, of our generation went by the name Krishnamurti. One of his last works was a transcript of a dialogue that he had with renowned physicist David Bohme, in the book “End Of Time.” The nugget of thought that the book revolved around was the idea that “somewhere in the recent past, humanity has taken a wrong turn.” These two spokespersons for Eastern and Western thought then went on to acknowledge that since that pivotal error, we have all been heading down a path with a very uncertain future.<br /> When faced with a terrible calamity, many find solace in the comfort of prosaic ideology. The other day I heard two yahoos in the laundry mat, drooling with anticipation of the upcoming millennium and its supposed relation to biblical prophecy. “ Didja hear about the plague of grasshoppers in Lake Havusa City, Arizona? Millions of those little buggers descended on that town like Moses himself decreed it! You know in the bible how it talks about the plague being a sign that the end times are coming, well it’s happening now! I can’t wait for Armageddon to finally get here.”<br /> And while the mentally disenfranchised flip their pages through revelations, waiting for more signs, the Mensa contingency spur their own researched results through science. According to a majority of the nation’s biologists, a “mass extinction” of plants and animals is occurring. Recent studies show that within thirty years, 1/5 of all living species will be extinct, and that within ten years, 1/8 of all plant species will become extinct. Luckily, there is a giant asteroid due to hit Earth in 2028, so we won’t have to worry too much about our follies. <br /> On the positive side of things, technology is taking part of the worry of extinction away with our new and improved cloning capabilities. While many poo-poo the idea of cloning, others are taking control of the reins of our destiny while still making a buck on the side. Let’s say your favorite cat “Puffy” was mauled by a van full of hippies with petitions to “protect animals from cruelty,” could you ever resurrect dear “Puffy?” Well actually you can. Geneti-Pet in Port Townsend, Washington takes gene samples from your pets for the near future time when cloning will be as easy as making an apple pie. So don’t cry over Old Yeller, the grooming ain’t over till the geneticist says it is.<br /> Nature, on the other hand, seems to have it’s own way of creating new species. A pig named Ditto was recently born in Iowa that has three eyes and two snouts. The entrepreneurial farmer was minutes away from selling Ditto to a traveling “Freak” show when the hand of helping intervened. An animal rescue group called Pigs Without Partners, based in LA, offered the farmer $5000 to keep Ditto away from the life of being a circus oddity. Usually the group then sends wayward pigs to its sanctuary Li’l Orphan Hammies, a 750 acre pig refuge complete with pig condos and swimming pools. But, once again, modern miracles will do its best to help Ditto become “normal.” Pigs Without Partners is looking for a hospital that will perform reconstructive surgery on Ditto to make him fit in the “LA way,” where, apparently, even pets get face-lifts.<br /> So while we humans hurry to our day of dead reckoning, seemingly convinced that the path we’ve chosen is irreconcilable and unavoidable, murmurings of our place in the Universe are leaking into the mainstream media. Astronomers have begun to announce that “entire planetary systems are everywhere in the heavens.” Could it be that our earthcentric consciousness of being the sole heirs of the universe, are nothing more than a vain attempt at superiority? According to the worlds best astronomers there might be planetary systems containing earthlike planets surrounding the “100 billion known stars in the galaxy.”<br /> It only makes sense to me that there are other Earth’s out there, perhaps billions of them, in which the “wrong turn,” that Krishnamurti talked about, never occurred. Basically we’ve been duped all long that our sun was the best and brightest, but as we’re beginning to learn, in the scheme of things, we’re kind of average. As this 1959 educational song points out, “The sun is a mass of incandescent gas, a gigantic nuclear furnace, where hydrogen is built into helium at a temperature of millions of degree’s. Yo ho it’s hot, the sun is not a place where we could live, but here on earth there’d be no life without the life it gives. We need its light, we need its heat, we need its energy, without the sun, without a doubt, there’d be no you and me.” And suns are as common in the universe as grains of sand at the beach.<br /> Speaking of suns, I wonder if the “True Son,” that is supposed to accompany the upcoming biblical apocalypse, is, as its proponents make him out to be, the only “Son of God?” If there were indeed billions of Earth’s, wouldn’t each planet teeming with life have its own Messiah? Well, as much as I’d like to answer that question, I’ll leave it up to you, as I’ve run out of room. In the mean time, let me introduce Mark Dery, cultural critic and author of ESCAPE VELOCITY: Cyberculture at the End of the Century. <br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />DNA<br /><br />Hey Mark, this is DNA. How ya doing?<br /><br />Mark Dery<br /><br />Great. You sound like you're coming to me through the Trans-Atlantic cable, though. Hold on just a second; let me get rid of this pesky caller [on call waiting]. Sorry about that, it was a fax machine. There's nothing more melancholy than the pitiable, faraway bleat of a machine, trying to talk to your machine. It's the lonely song of the information age.<br /><br />DNA<br /><br />I'm already working on a dating service for computers and other appliances. Why should they suffer from our neglect?<br /><br />MARK DERY<br /><br />Emily White, the editorial intern on Flame Wars, the anthology that I edited for Duke University Press, coined a marvelous phrase, "electronic autism," which was her neologism to describe the Information Age neurosis wherein you prefer to reach peoples' machines rather than them.<br /><br />DNA<br /><br />I have those moments.<br /><br />MARK DERY<br /><br />Everyone does. Nothing is more horrific than getting an *actual human being* on the line these days! Studies show that young <br />Japanese actually prefer to interface with machines rather than human beings. Vending machines, automated tellers, voicemail labyrinths, and automated services of all sorts are seen as vastly preferable to actual protein robots. <br /><br />DNA<br /><br />Well, that reminds me of the controversy surrounding the Japanese cartoon, Pokemon ["Pocket Monsters"]. Apparently, one particular episode sent thousands of Japanese kids spiraling into seizures.<br /><br />MARK DERY<br /><br />I only skimmed the New York Times story on it and I haven't really slipped into my Speedos and trolled the net and correlated all the stories about it. So I can't really grind out any profound perception on it, except to say that what's fascinating about this is that it seems to vindicate an age-old perception of television-- -namely, that its most corrosive effects are physiological, rather than psychological. I can't swallow this, personally, but it's the keystone on which Jerry Manders's argument, in Four Arguments for<br />the Elimination of Television, is built. He talks about how when people watch television they go into a REM state and that television is so soporific it has a hypnagogic effect on people, and he speculates that "the ingestion of artificial light"---the glow of the TV screen---may be carcinogenic. (Kids, don't sit too<br />close to the tube!) Robert Kubey wrote a marvelous piece in The New York Times a couple of years ago called "A Body at Rest Tends to Remain Glued to the Tube." It adduced all kinds of statistics to<br />support the notion that brain wave patterns truly are different when we're watching television. Marie Winn typifies this sort of middlebrow-liberal alarmism about the toxic fallout of television. She buttresses her argument, in The Plug-In Drug, with these sorts of pseudo-scientific studies about what television does to the brain. It's still widely believed, as part of paranoid folklore, that sitting too close to the television will irradiate you. <br /><br /> So I find it fascinating that a media event like this comes downs the pike, seemingly showing that television *is*, in fact, like David Cronenberg's Videodrome---that it does grow TV tumors and short-circuit the synapses. Even so, I tend to be deeply wary of such middlebrow polemics, because it seems boneheadedly obvious that television's most erosive effects are ideological and philosophical. I think the *last* thing that we have to worry about is the stroboscopic flashing of television kicking off apoplectic<br />seizures among millions of kiddie couch potatoes. <br /><br />DNA<br /><br />I find it ironic that the Cartoon Network is so hot to get the cartoon to play in the States in the spring---edited, of course.<br /><br />MARK DERY<br /><br />There's always this tendency to look for labyrinthine, X-Files- style conspiracies behind the manipulative armatures, especially the marketing wing, of our society. I'm a great believer in Roland Barthes's aphorism, "surface is depth." Sometimes, the deepest meaning of these things is written on their surfaces---tattooed on<br />their skin, so to speak. There's a longstanding love affair, in American pop culture, with the paranoid folklore of "subliminal seduction," as Wilson Brian Keyes called it---the sort of Freudian manipulations or semiotic chicanery mythologized in books like Vance Packard's The Hidden Persuaders. You know, backwards masking in heavy metal music, and this whole notion that underneath the floorboards of normative society scurry dark emissaries of global conspiracies. All of which belies the fact that, again, you<br />don't need to look any further than the end of your nose to see what advertising is doing all around us. So this notion that death's-heads in ice cubes and nude women hidden in the camel on a cigarette package are the ways in which public relations wind their tendrils around the collective cerebral cortex strikes me as just goofy. It seems that the manufacture of consent is being done in a much more obvious way---namely, through the commodification of our desires, selling sublime visions of the body beautiful and the good<br />life back to ourselves.<br /><br />DNA<br /><br />And as a safety net to insure that the masses get the overt/covert message, the hidden message can only be deciphered with Prozac.<br /><br />MARK DERY<br /><br />There was a marvelous little squib in the magazine _Civilization recently, a brief item on the *actual* use of subliminal seduction in TV advertising. Rather than inserting stroboscopic blipverts, a la Max Headroom, that subliminally bombard your brain with brand names or whatever, the new trend in television ads is to have the spot play and then, at the end, almost as a postscript, a brief<br />message winks by. You're fully conscious of it having appeared, but within the structural logic of the ad, it's seen as an afterthought, a wry rye aside to the commercial you've just seen. And that's proven to be highly effective, leaving legible traces on people's minds. So it's "subliminal" seduction which,<br />oxymoronically, is not at all subliminal. The "hidden agenda," in this case, unplugs our critical resistance by being hidden in plain sight, like those "Absolute Subliminal" ads for Absolute Vodka, which<br />winked at Wilson Bryan Keyes by showing the logo traced in the crevices of the ice cubes. Generation X (a term we're stuck with, I'm afraid, though no one can use it without groaning) flatters itself that its hardened carapace of cynicism renders it immune to the carpet bombing of advertising and public relations. But<br />advertising does an end run around that cynicism by letting everyone know that they're in on the joke. This is an old critique, of course. It's Mark Crispin Miller's "Hipness Unto Death." I've touched on the notion that advertising eats cynicism for breakfast in essays I've written for Adbusters. <br /><br />DNA<br /><br />Do you still work with Adbusters?<br /><br />MARK DERY<br /><br />I don't; I had a falling out with them. It seems a no-brainer to me that commodifying anti-consumerism in the form of Adbusters T-shirts and calendars and all the other merchandise they peddle comports ill with their culture jamming ideology. There's a delicious irony, there. There's also a puritanical censoriousness<br />to their sensibility that makes unhappy common cause with the Andrea Dworkinite tilt of too much Canadian culture, in my opinion. I mean, this is the country notorious for writing the Dworkin-<br />MacKinnon argument that pornographic fantasy is inseparable from physical rape into law! That's part of what made me recoil from them. Parody ads about the supreme evils of *coffee* are a little<br />too abstemious, for my taste (not to mention the fact that they demonize my vice of choice, which is going entirely *too far*!). Adbusters' editorial voice also plugs itself into the tradition,<br />descended from Frankfurt Marxists like Horkheimer and Adorno and carried on by cultural critics like Neil Postman and James B. Twitchell, of left-wing and liberal critics of mass culture being sneeringly elite about popular pleasure and cheap thrills. I'm thinking specifically of Bertolt Brecht who moves to Los Angeles with other European expatriates and spends all his time in a hothouse environment with fellow European expatriates and never goes down to the Mahogany of his dreams, which is mere blocks away<br />at the long shoremans' cafes in downtown L.A. Historically, there's a yawning divide between the left wing hipoisie and the ordinary booboisie. I see that kind of firewall being erected in AdBusters, through their growingly puritanical posturing. They seem to miss the point that it's one thing to look at the deleterious effects of, say, cattle culture---the desertification of the Brazilian rainforest and the first-world medical fallout of a beef-heavy diet, as documented in Jeremy Rifkin's Beyond Beef, for instance---but that it's another thing altogether to imply that people should *not be allowed* to smoke. I'm hardly a libertarian<br />in the Ayn Rand sense of the world, but that way lies the mental gulags of the insufferably PC, not to mention our disastrous War on Drugs, which is predicated on the very notion that the State stands<br />between us and our central nervous systems, even in the (largely mythical) privacy of our own homes.<br /><br />DNA<br /><br />Well, that shows what I like about your work. While you can spin cyber-yarns with the best of them as well as critique fringe culture, you manage to stay fairly well rooted in a sentiment that is more humane and less Borg.<br /><br />MARK DERY<br /><br />Flattering of you to say that. But what do you mean, exactly?<br /><br />DNA<br /><br />You know, like your critique of what you call the "cyber-rapture" and how we're going to download our minds like they do in the movie _Brainstorm_ into whatever unit will take them. I don't know if this is a kernel of your message or something I gleaned off the top, but it seems to me that you make a point of redirecting awareness to the fact that we are still in our bodies, in corporeal form, and we still have many issues that have never been dealt with. My question is, even if we all do get hardwired, what is<br />going to be the message that send back and forth? Will it be something like, "What were we thinking, I wish I still had my body?"<br /><br />MARK DERY<br /><br />On a purely nuts-and-bolts, practical level, these Extropian bedtime stories for would-be cyborgs that are being recounted around our cultural campfire these days---Hans Moravec's fantasy of downloading human consciousness into the glittering matrixes of a massively-parallel super computer fashioned from the infinitely dense matter at the heart of dead stars, and on and on and on---are light years beyond existing technologies. And *even if* you could download human consciousness into robotic explorers, at the far rim of infinity, or massively parallel computers, you're merely exchanging one sort of body for another. There's a marvelous quote from Bruce Sterling that appeared in an old issue of Mondo 2000,<br /><br />something to the effect of, "the real future of cyborging is going to look like a distraught cyborg staring into the gutter at his prosthetic arm, which has just fallen off and lies there, infested by roaches." It reminds me of the inventor Steve Baer's tart comments on the space colonies imagined in the 1960's by a gang of<br />libertarian technocrats called the L-5 Association. Baer predicted that the L-5 colonies would look a lot like Mir---grim, grimy space stations with acoustic tiling falling out of the ceiling and old underwear stuffed behind it, the stale smell of halitosis, with an eerie airport hum in the background. A cross between the bridge of the _Enterprise_ and the Greyhound terminal in downtown L.A. <br /><br /> So I think that an important thing to point out is that all these fantasies of exfoliating the body, like so much dead meat, are really a bait-and-switch, trading one body for another. And nothing is more unreliable than hardware. My god, the human body is infinitely superior to the best Detroit robot welder; those things<br />foul up and break down all the time! There's a marvelous quote from Octavio Paz, where he says that nothing has a more sublime sadness to it than a broken-down machine, rusting among the weeds. <br />Rust never sleeps. Even as the human body is overtaken by age and decay, so, too, are machines. It's just a matter of exchanging one decrepit body for another. <br /><br /> So, on a practical level you can easily let the air out of the cyborg fantasy. And on a political level, we have to look at these fantasies, as I point out in _Escape Velocity_, as joined at the hip with a whole pernicious tradition of deep-seated body loathing. In Western culture, it's rooted in the Gnosticism that predates Christianity. The Manichean sense of the world as a loathsome mess of matter, and of mind as pure, Neo-Platonic ectoplasm that floats untethered over everything, is alive and well and living in Roman<br />Catholicism and, arguably, in Protestantism. Certainly, fundamentalist visions of the Rapture are complicit with a contempt for the flesh and a contempt for the mundane, for the material world, for the here and now; they emphasize the there and then, some sort of numinous otherworld that looks a lot like Gibson's<br />cyberspace, if New Age encounters of near-death experiences are to be believed. <br /><br /> And this sort of body loathing has provided the philosophical justification, throughout Western history, for our rapacious attitude toward women, the natural world, the "primitive" (inevitably darker-skinned) Other, and other "exploitable resources" whose philosophical status as closer to the material world, rather than the imagined realm of pure, bodiless thought, condemns them to the unhappy fate of raw fodder for the engines of domestic domination, capitalist production, and colonial expansion. <br /><br />So we have to remember that the body, in these giddy rhapsodies about cyborging the flesh or jettisoning it altogether, is a symbol for a whole series of bodies. For example, we have the libertarian technophile, George Gilder, who is a fixture in Wired magazine, seething with contempt for large cities. The city, in architectural discourse, is often referred to metaphorically as a body. So abandoning the "mongrel metropolis" where the urban poor live and cloistering ourselves in the gated communities that are springing<br />up like asteroid belts around big cities is one more way of leaving the body---in this case, the body politic, the body of social responsibility and civic life---behind. Fantasies of space migration that view the Earth as this hunk of used-up clinker are about scrapping another sort of body---the planetary body ("Gaia,"<br />in New Age parlance, metaphorically imaged as an ecological immune system of sorts). What I'm suggesting is that this fantasy that we're telling ourselves about jettisoning the body like the third stage of a rocket as we approach millennial warp-out is really a political myth woven by an economic elite---a story about the digerati's desire to leave social responsibility behind, to uncouple itself from the contemptible urban poor and the toiling second wave masses and ascend, into the penthouses of Fritz Lang's<br />Metropolis or, more appropriately, Blade Runner. <br /><br />DNA<br /><br />Do you think that Americans have matured in their view of self? I'm thinking of how the average diet is moving away from red meat. Is this reform born of desperation or is it a more conscious choice?<br /><br />MARK DERY<br /><br />Well, I don't know if it's the benchmark of a more mature America but I'm fascinated by the mounting paranoia about things like diet. I mean, chicken, which was the "healthy" meat until recently, is now seen as some sort of pathogenic soup in which salmonella is cultured! And just yesterday there was a _New York Times_ story about rampant contamination and pesticide residue in fruit and vegetables. So now even the most abstemious Vegan has to step lightly through a gastrointestinal mine field. Of course, this situation arises from automation and globalization, where small family farms no longer exist and everything is brought to you by multinationals like Archer Daniels Midland, "supermarket to the world." There's is a corporatizing of everything. What I find hilarious about Wired (my favorite straw man, because their smiley-face futurism is so fatuous it practically douses itself with gasoline and hands you the match) is the laissez-faire fable that Wired fellow travelers like John Perry Barlow and Kevin Kelly are always spinning, namely this notion that our economic and political landscape is becoming more and more decentralized. And yet, if you dolly back the camera, you see that *centralization* in transnational corporate capitalism proceeds apace all around us--- the centralization of the factory farms we were just talking about, the centralization of Murdochian newsmedia conglomerates, the centralization in book and magazine and newspaper publishing industries. This creeping phobia about mad cow disease and salmonella and pesticides and PCBs seems to be in a large part about the mega-corporatizing of the process of raising and slaughtering and distributing the things that end up on our plates.<br /><br />There's a real disconnect between what dangles on the ends of our forks and how it got there, and a vague sense of unease about our profound ignorance of the dirty details. In George Bataille's Encyclopedia Acephalica, he talks about how the slaughterhouse, even in the Paris of the 1920's, was already becoming a rare sight. Bataille thought it was a bracing corrective to the disengagement of modern life to walk through an abattoir and see how meat animals are *really* slaughtered. Sue Coe rams this point home in her unforgettable book Porkopolis, a blistering excoriation of contemporary slaughterhouses, full of unsavory facts about the hygiene and humaness---or lack thereof---of the slaughterhouses of the '90s. <br /><br />DNA<br /><br />When I'm president, there will be mandatory field trips for kindergarten classes to slaughterhouses.<br /><br />MARK DERY<br /><br />That's another example of this dynamic that we were talking about a few minutes ago: the dynamic of disembodiment and disengagement that is the hallmark of our age. There's an unbelievable corporate<br />membrane of automation and packaging and distribution interposed between you and the naked lunch, as it were, on the end of your fork.<br /><br /> Apropos of nothing, what did Steven Johnson have to say when you interviewed him in your last issue?<br /><br />DNA<br /><br />Well, his book, Interface Culture, which started off as a Master's thesis on Dickens, became an examination of the world of Hypertext. Steve likened our place in the digital world to the first chapter of a great novel---a novel that will entertain us as it educates us about our place in the industrial and digital world.<br /><br />MARK DERY<br /><br />I'd like to read the book. Browsing the Web always reminds me of the Situationists, who liked to use the French term *derive*, which Greil Marcus defines, in Lipstick Traces as drifting through the city, "allowing its signs to divert your steps, and then to divert those signs yourself, forcing them to give up routes that never existed before---there would be no end to it." It's felicitous wandering, basically, stumbling on whatever you happen to stumble on and enabling it to further direct you in your wanderings.<br /><br />There's the notion of the psychogeography of urban space as having a surreal, dream-like quality, the sort of thing you see in the Broadway musicals of the 20's and '30s, like Lullaby of Broadway-<br /><br />--the sense that the "mongrel metropolis" after dark becomes a sort of consensual hallucination in neon. What's fascinating about this is that, just at the moment where we're able to engage in our own *derives* in the *virtual* reality of cyberspace, our own discursive wanderings around the global cat's-cradle of Web links, public space in *material reality* is disappearing. More and more, you have the theme-parking of urban space, like Faneuil Hall in Boston or City Walk in Los Angeles, a sanitized, mythologized L.A.<br />street which is actually part of Universal Studios. And of course now Disney has built a planned community in Orlando, Florida, called Celebration. It's a Disneyesque, Main Street, USA-style<br />resurrection of a small town idyll that never was. People actually live there, in this embalmed, turn-of-the-century town--- controlled, of course, by the Magic Kingdom's minions. Meanwhile, as Mike Davis has exhaustedly chronicled in his book, City of Quartz, the theme-parking and privatizing of public spaces and the sequestering of the upper tier of our increasingly two-tiered society in gated communities is simultaneously robbing us of the experience that the Situationists were writing about. In New York, for example, you have the Disneyfication of Times Square, which used to be this marvelously seedy playground for weirdos like Diane Arbus---and, admittedly, a locus of structural decay, fleshpot<br />exploitation, and just plain misery---is now becoming a must-see for American families on the Disney World/South Street Seaport circuit. <br /><br /> I think it's very fruitful to examine such phenomena in a Cheng and Eng way, seeing them as conjoined twins in terms of the larger cultural dynamics of the world we live in. For example, Howard Rheingold's book, The Virtual Community, extols the notion of BBS's and MUDs and MOOs and MUSEs as an attempt to return to the lost commons. The notion of the electronic agora is seductive, and I don't want to sneer at it reflexively, but the fact that it happens at a time when teenagers can't find anywhere to hang out<br />except the local megamall makes me suspicious. These dizzy rhapsodies about the electronic agora as an alternative public space are paving the way, in terms of public acceptance, for the corporatizing of the commons in the material world. So again, I think it's most useful to look at the interlock or the handshake<br />between a lot of these phenomena.<br /><br />DNA<br /><br />I run a series of concerts in town and what I find interesting to watch are the migratory packs of people as they move about the park. On nights when the entire Jr. High contingency is out, they flock like bees lured by pheromones. I think that the electronic world, besides lacking an olfactory sense, also misses the boat on<br />just the sheer uniqueness of airing out your body amongst others. And that spontaneous ballet will never be translated to the party lines of the Web.<br /><br />MARK DERY<br /><br />Well, as someone who works with kids, what do you make of Gen- Xplotation and the sanguine vision of Gen X as the skeleton key to the coming millennium? People like Douglas Rushkoff are foDNAer<br />and always bandying about lighter-than-air phrases like "the kids are alright," which seems to imply that youth culture offers a crystal ball through which we can auger cultural change? Does this<br />ring true to your ear? (Now I'm interviewing you.)<br /><br />DNA<br /><br />I've found that as tight a pigeonhole as we like to stick people in, labels usually fall off the moment you get to know someone on a deeper level. While the youth might be viewed as punks, Marilyn Mansonites, slackers, nerds, or what have you, oftentimes these poses are nothing more than battle armor to protect them from the world. Personally, I think this Gen-X thing is a load of crap to keep people down. It's disempowering to be thrown into such a large category. Unfortunately, if you're told you're worthless and have no voice in your society, you eventually end up believing it. I've just got to say that I don't see myself as some statesman who greases his podium every night. The only person I represent, somewhat haphazardly, is myself. Like you said about Adbusters becoming ineffective, once Gen-X began to be a parody of itself, the term became useless.<br /><br />MARK DERY<br /><br />Let be clear about what I said about Adbusters since I was fairly withering in my critique of them. I think what they're doing in terms of attempting to evangelize teeny-somethings and twenty-somethings about the importance of media literacy and critical thinking, about resisting the marketing and advertising armatures of our society, is *tremendously* important. They serve a vital purpose in that regard. But one of the forks in the road where I part company with them is in their unwillingness to drive the nail all the way home. For example, Adbusters editor Kalle Lasn has this knee-jerk, almost red-baiting resistance to the specter of the '60s New Left. He seems to be very sanguine about free-market capitalism and seems to see the New (old) Left vanguard as consigned to the dustbin of history. Unfortunately, he's training his crosshairs on the symptoms of the most corrosive aspects of consumer culture, not the root causes. What brings us the unending acid rain of product placement in movies and corporate-sponsored rock tours and William Burroughs shilling for Nike and now advertisements on fruit, for Bob's sake---as well as the increasing reduction of human beings to clouds of demographic statistics and purchasing patterns---is not advertising *per se*, but multinational capitalism in the post-industrial age. You have to be willing to bore down through the sedimented layers of our culture to get to the roots of things to make a thorough going critique, and Adbusters seems unwilling to call capitalism to account in any profound way. It's confusing the symptomology with the disease. So there's a failure of nerve, there, that weakens the<br />magazine's critique immeasurably. <br /><br /> But to return to youth culture, I suppose that one of the reasons I was baiting a trap, in my question, is that I'm deeply wary of this Doogie-Howser-in-cyberspace, Jimmy-Olsen-on-whippets punditry that whispers sweet nothings into the ears of corporate culture, massaging the corporate ego by convincing it that consumer culture drips rebel cool---that watching Ren & Stimpy really is the most radical gesture. At the same time, this sort of compromised public intellectualism is selling corporate America visions of Gen-X as a way of enabling marketers and public- relations people to target teeny-somethings and twenty-somethings. There's a rotten philosophical core to Rushkoffian notion that youth culture is ground zero for subcultural resistance, that watching Beavis and Butthead represents some sort of grassroots rebellion. <br /><br /> For one thing, youth culture is a figment of the postwar consumer culture brought to you by mass production, advertising, and TV, among other things. The arrival of the rebel teen, in the '50s, goes hand in glove with the advent of pop culture as we now know it. The seeds of youth culture were sewn in the early part of this century by advertisers who were interested in able bodies for automation and assembly lines. It began to destabilize the patriarchal paterfamilias of the Victorian era that still held sway in America at that time. It replaced it with an inverted social schema in which youth led old age. Stuart Ewen writes marvelously about this whole cultural metamorphosis in his book Captains of Consciousness, which unearths the social roots of the consumer culture. <br /><br /> I'm not saying that youth culture is *not* an enormous source of subversion and vitality and endless inspiration, but it's *also* raw fodder for the engines of manufactured trends. Kids represents an immense source of disposable income and unlike their parents, who presumably have a lot of ingrained prejudices and tend to be wary of the sales pitch, youth culture is traditionally driven by the desire for immediate gratification, peer pressure, microfads and trends du jour. The "kid's culture" pundits like Rushkoff extol<br />is partly---and I emphasize *partly*---conjured out of the inarticulate yearnings of focus-grouped teens by thirtysomething marketing executives in suits. There's a feedback loop between subcultural subversion and multinational megatrends. In that respect, teenage rebellion is red meat on merchandisers' and advertisers' plates. So before we go extolling the virtues of twenty-somethings as the last, best hope for Western civilization, we ought to think about the way that giddy vision plays right into the hands of the stage managers of public opinion, whose business it is to sell us shrinkwrapped visions of rebel cool, as Tom Frank documents in his book, _The Conquest of Cool: Business Culture, Counterculture, and the Rise of Hip Consumerism_. So this blindly uncritical notion that genuflecting before romantic visions of<br />adolescent rebellion will somehow save us from the deeply anti- democratic forms of repression proliferating around us---the growing sense that corporate influence in politics has made a mockery of the one-person, one-vote presumption, for example---is surely the limit case in credulity. The passing microfads of adolescent subcultures are the bread and butter of what Benjamin Barber wryly calls the "McWorld" we live in. What we need is real engagement with the gritty political issues of our moment, not a retreat into vanguardist, vidkid fantasies of zapping the forces of domination with our video-game joysticks and our TV remotes.DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-27976161047989106572008-07-14T20:36:00.000-07:002013-07-27T21:56:41.518-07:00Interview with Desmond Tutu: World Peace is a Mutual Climax(Originally published in one of my rags, HUMP Megazine)<br />
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Desmond Tutu is considered by many people to be a prophet who rallied the spirit of a people whose national pride had been sequestered in the blistering sun for 100’s of years. Up close and in person, Archbishop Tutu looks more like Sammy Davis Jr’s dad, a huggable little man who seemingly against all odds, had his words become prophecy. What had seemed like an unlikely, in fact unbelievable turning of the tables, occurred, and still remains spinning today like a lazy susan. <br />
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Mr. Tutu, besides being known for adorning huge gold crosses around his neck way before Master P made it fashionable, is also famous (or in the eyes of Baptists everywhere: infamous) for his statements that Jesus was a revolutionary in the same vein as, “Che, Fidel Castro and Chairman Mao.” His stunning tour de force is the notion that “race stands in the way of world peace,” and invites everyone to join the “rainbow family.” We have not yet, even the most liberal amongst us, been able to fathom that that the color of a persons skin does not, in any way, interfere with their ability to be human and share and contribute in every facet of the human condition. Apparently Archbishop Tutu is immune to the myopia that afflicts the average westerner from achieving utopia.<br />
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Much to the horror what almost every American thinks, Tutu’s idea is that reconciliation, and not revenge, should be the mainstay of our global system of rights and wrongs. If we were to take Tutu’s words to heart, we would have to take the fastest growing business in America, the prison system, and replace it with a conscious community who worked together to enforce a tight set of ideals and morals. Tutu says, “the world is facing a sort of conflict situation as in Kososvo, Bosnia and Sri Lanka. It’s all really basically a conflict within a race of people. They have to make a decision about how they are going to resolve these problems and how they can be prepared to live intelligently together.” Who can argue with Desmond when he says, “The world is intriguing,” or when he talks of the possibilities of our leaders doing good.<br />
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DNA: Hi. Have you met President Clinton before? Bill Clinton? That guy?<br />
Tutu: Yes.<br />
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DNA: Do you find that he just pays lip service to wanting to end wars? Or do you find he’s a man really devoted to peace? Or perhaps, that he’s more caught up in making some money on the side?<br />
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Tutu: I like him. And I have been very impressed with his commitment to some of the issues that are close to my heart. Many people have thought that perhaps the Third World, so called, Africa, perhaps really is off the radar screen, and he said this ought not to be, and is delighted by visiting Africa. Another concern of ours is the old question of the international debt, and he has made some very impressive remarks about forgiving those debts, which is what the so-called Jubilee 2000 occasion was to be about. Debt. The burden of debt lifted from countries that are not able to pay it. So, I would say that I have found this kind of thing that is being concerned about, it certainly, in foreign policy, on the whole, things that warm the cockles of my heart.<br />
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Despite the fact that Clinton’s half-hearted attempt at erasing desperate nations debt inevitably failed in Congress, Tutu found the burger-eating, jism-spreading countrified Bubba as one who warms ones cockles. And while this is an article on Tutu, not Clinton, I’ve got to say, “what about erasing our own countries debts?” Sure, the UN didn’t sanction the IMF to make me take out student loans, but why not try some down-home mercy with your own citizens before sticking your corncob out and looking all benevolent to other countries that we’ve screwed so far down, that amnesty is the only solution anyway. But I digress.<br />
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The South African government as they “offered” to help us in Florida to achieve “true Democracy” did not overlook the cracks exposed during the recent election. Tutu is vehemently opposed to Capitalism, yet he seems to pander to America’s delusion that we are a Democracy. “I think it’s a very wonderful thing that our country has a leading party, one that has had a fairly firm grip actually and a commitment to nonracialism. They’ve refused to say “with a commitment to being multiracial,” though. They speak more about the fact that race ought not to be a significant factor in determining ‘whatever’ of any significance. And the way you look at the policies of our government is you have essentially all the ethnic groups of South Africa represented. And there’s also a very deep commitment to gender equality, so we find that most of our ambassadors are women. Which is unusual. The speaker of our parliament is a woman the house speaker is a woman. So it is not lip service. One of our former premiers, a premier is something like your state Governor, who said, “When you speak about race and you speak about color, you touch my children. When you speak about race, you touch me. When you speak about equality, you touch my wife.” And he is a very high official in the ANC, which is a very, maybe, romantic way of demonstrating the kind of commitment that our country has to nonprejudice.”<br />
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Does Tutu think that the legacy of Nelson Mandela will be hard shoes to fill? Tutu suggests, “I suppose that would be code for “Do you think his successors are going to be committed to reconciliation?” I think that what we need to make clear is, no one in their right mind could ever think that we will produce a clone of Nelson Mandela. He is unique, and it’s wonderful that we’ve had him. Fortunately his successor, his immediate successor, is someone who, in fact, was running Nelson Mandela’s government, as Nelson Mandela was the figurehead President. Figurehead, not in a derogatory sense, in a very, very powerful sense of someone who was beginning to draw disparate groups together. He was, (the new President) was running the government. As to his own commitment to reconciliation, there is no doubt about that. He addressed an exclusive organization, which in the past was a very, very influential group indeed. And after his address, we see this organization quickly opened its membership to people of all races and all genders. And he has also set up in the Presidency, a unit in language, because he’s aware of just how sensitive an issue it is with most people, but especially with the new President. And I know that he is as firmly committed as Nelson Mandela ever was to this issue. He is not as flamboyant as Nelson Mandela, he doesn’t wear dashikis, he tends to wear a suit and tie, because he is actually rather prudish.”<br />
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It is easy to be fooled into thinking that now that we have entered the 21st century that we have somehow evolved emotionally and intellectually as a culture, and as a society. Desmond is ample proof that there are individuals that have achieved a more integrated perspective, but collectively we just don’t know how to limbo. Tutu says it this way, “And you know you need it in this country, very much, as in other countries, but race is a big issue in the United States. And one is not really pontificating at all, but saying this is a great country, and has the potential to be an even greater country if it can resolve its race problem. Because only a very blind mind and insensitive person would pretend that there was not something odd when the majority of dropouts come from one ethnic grouping. The highest number of unemployed, it’s a very odd coincidence. You go to prisons, you discover it is disproportionately from one section of the community. And so you have to say, “There is something wrong”. <br />
Despite all of America’s erectile dysfunction and rush to concoct newer and bigger panaceas, there is a rootsy dream that was born with this country, one that still beats today, a dream that has left its impression around the world. You don’t spit into the wind and you don’t build an Eiffel Tower in Tienneman Square. We talk the talk, and now we must walk the walk. Tutu supports this great notion when he says, “The world out there is waiting, and the United States is the only super-power now. And whether you like it or not, you have obligations to the world community.” In other words, the Prophet Tutu warns that it is time for America and Americans to grow up and come to grips with our effect on the rest of the planet.<br />
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Our leaders seem to think the only way to “help” others is to bomb their country, kill their children and women, and set up “peace-keeping” military bases everywhere. If the truth be known there are other ways to help (gasp). We can no longer ride in like John Wayne, and set crooked countries straight. Tutu believes, no, Tutu knows that, like Spiderman, where there is great power comes great responsibility “What it does say is that perhaps you will be slightly more modest in when you approach other places. That way, you know you don’t have to be prescriptive. You know that you don’t seem to have all the answers. Because you haven’t. You can come as a partner.” <br />
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It is time to dance. <br />
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DNA is an Internationally published journalist whose words have been read in such trash as Rage, Axcess, Revelation, Bizarre, Lotus, Jambands.com, Stopbush2000.com, nowherexnowhere.com, Magical Blend and now this. Contact him directly at voteDNA@shocking.comDNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-68898652713476330702008-07-14T20:08:00.000-07:002008-07-27T19:53:40.154-07:00Interview with Israeli Psychic Uri Geller: I Was A Teenage Telepath(originally published in one of my rags, HUMP Megazine)<br /><br />You want to get to the heart of the matter, do you really want to know what’s going on, do you want to get beyond the usual crap? Well then strap yourself in because it’s going to be a bumpy ride; for this is no sci-fi program, we have regained control of your TV set, and not for a meager hour, but forever. Truth is, you have all been lied to. Cultural lies, social lies, religious lies, financial lies, lies upon your lies, so many lies that nothing makes sense anymore. You’re so far gone that you quote lies as your “proof” that you’re indubitably correct, when you’re really heinously wrong.<br /><br />Dead Reckoning is the process by which sailors and navigators chart the future by studying the past and present. But we are wrong about our past and blinded to our present and with such a predicament the future can only spell D.I.S.A.S.T.E.R. Every Culture has it’s own lies to weed through. As Westerners we have our own unique mental knots to unwind to reclaim our past, namely Creationism and Darwinism. We have evolved from apes as much as we have evolved from two people named Adam and Eve. Limited to two wrong choices in our seminal past, it is easy to see how we have gotten to a present-day that is so limited and strange. <br /><br /><br />And while “reality” seems an unmovable force, things are not so set in stone. What we call reality is malleable, strangely elastic and available to twisting and bending by our own minds. Or at least that’s the way I’ve always imagined it. It started when I was 4 or 5 years old, learning the skills of my father. Standing by his side as he deftly instructed me on the subtleties of the remote control. Channels flickering at such a steady and constant rate that it was hypnotic and trance inducing. The cathode ray emitted directly to my cortex: Merv Griffen, Marcus Welby, Coke, Baseball, Popeye, Mr. Clean, Merv Griffen, Marcus Welby, Coke, Baseball, Popeye, Mr. Clean, a guy bending spoons with his mind. Whoah! A spoonbender? Even my dad in his semi-somnambulist state, paused to tune in.<br /><br />His name was Uri Geller, he was most quickly noted as an Israeli Psychic, and as was the way of the times, he, like all notables, was on Merv Griffen, the talk show host with the most. Uri, unlike all to come before him or after him, did not admit to chicanery, prestidigitation or acts of legerdemain. Uri always contended that he was using the powers of his mind to bend spoons and other similar events. And so it began for me. I was off to the cutlery drawer to swipe spoons, press them to my head and strain my face till my mother stepped in before I ruptured vessels in my forehead. Yet, the idea that the mind had a hand in pushing the boundaries of what was real and what was illusion persisted throughout my adult life.<br /><br />So let me spell this out. Uri Geller says he is really a psychic who can move things with his mind (among other fabulous tricks).<br /><br />Throughout the interview I was pestered by all the criticism I have read of Uri over the years; that he’s a charlatan, a showman, a fake. I had a spoon pressed up against my head the entire time I did the interview, hoping that it would bend, or get warm, or anything out of the normal really. Of course, I also dreaded that the spoon would melt for then I would have to believe, but believe in what? Even if someone performs what we would think of as a miracle, it doesn’t prove divinity. The natural extension of our own powers as humans is only limited by our imagination.<br /><br /> To help you, the reader get some insight into my interview process, I’ve included some commentary in parenthesis alongside the interview.<br /><br />Personally my belief is this. Psychic powers are being unleashed on a wide world scale, it could be evolutionary, it could be due to environmental factors, it could be alien death rays, who knows. But, and here’s the catch, the powers that be do not want kids to be psychic, running around remote viewing government secrets (re: lies), seeing who’s really behind the curtain in our police state of Oz. And so, we get 11,000 kids a day forced to take mood-changing pills. Prozac is the natural enemy of Psychic Powers! The government cannot kill the firstborn male anymore (until the next war) so it’s a pharmaceutical war. <br /><br />Once more for the dim-witted, evolution is unleashing our psychic powers. The government is combating this by pushing mind-numbing pills down our children’s throats.<br /><br /><br />Then again, who knows. In any case, Uri swears that he’s the real deal and I have no reason to not believe him………hell, he knew my given name was David, what more proof do I need? I caught Uri in his castle in England, where he heals sick children from the Hospital all day long. Oh yeah, did I mention he spends his days curing children of cancer?<br /> So put your cardboard pyramid on your head and sharpen your thinking, as we dive into the 70% of deep thinking, submerging into the HUMPy void…………….<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Uri: Hello.<br />HUMP: Hi, Uri. This is DNA in California.<br />Uri: DNA, hi! Why are you called DNA?<br />HUMP: It’s the initials of my given name. (This question happens every interview.)<br />Uri: Which was?<br />HUMP: It was David $#&! *&?@@@. (censored, if I knew I would have to kill you)<br />Uri: I knew it was David. Anyhow, DNA. I like that.<br />HUMP: Thank you. I started doing stand-up comedy about 10 years ago, and its kind of a funny name. (Immediately I’m impressed he knew my name was David, wait, I told him didn’t I?)<br />Uri: Fantastic. Are you good at that?<br />HUMP: Yeah, I kind of lost the bug. Things aren’t funny all the time, and when you have to be the funny guy all the time, it’s too demanding. (Shouldn’t I be asking the questions?)<br />Uri: I know what you mean, but I’ll tell you something. If you are even mediocre, you can really make a lot of money with that.<br />HUMP: [laughs]. (Is he psychically intuiting that I’m a mediocre comedian, probably.)<br />Uri: But you have to learn how to push yourself, too.<br />HUMP: Right. Well, I definitely push myself. (I feel like pushing myself out of a window sometimes.)<br />Uri: But, DNA, go ahead and ask me whatever you want to ask me.<br />HUMP: Great! Well, I’ve been doing a lot of reading. I remember you back in the 70’s on TV all the time in The States, and I think you’re a touchstone for me for going into the field of psychology and just for really expanding my mind as a child by saying that what you believe is what you can create. You were one of the first people out there, globally, with that message. And I just read your new book…<br />Uri: Which one? Mind Medicine?<br />HUMP: Yes. (He only has one new book, but Uri is a shameless self-promoter.)<br />Uri: Okay._HUMP: And it seemed like a very practical explanation of the history of medicine and where we are now.<br />Uri: That is exactly what it was meant to send the message. But because I’m not a doctor, if you’ve noticed, I went out of my way to interview Deepak Chopra. Also, Andrew Weil was really nice to me to give me a foreword, because years and years ago, DNA, he actually interviewed me and he had a cover story in Psychology Today, and then somehow he cooled off, and he said, “Did Uri Geller really do these things, or did he trick me?” So he had done a follow-up which was sort of rather negative. And I was amazed that he said, “Yeah, I’ll write a foreword for you. You know, you’ve changed. You went on.” And then Larry Dorsey, you know, with the Power of Prayer, so I think it’s a very informative and logical book, and I get thousands of emails from around the world, because, you know, it’s translated into thousands of languages. It’s just helping people.<br />HUMP: It’s a beautiful book, too. The layout and design of the book is very nice, very pleasing. (How does he read thousands of e-mails from around the world, or is telepathy a universal language?)<br />Uri: Thank you.<br />HUMP: The book has a lot more simple messages, combining Eastern thought into the Western world of things. Important messages like what you think about yourself is more important than what others think of you.<br />Uri: Yes. And tell me, what made you call me? I mean, how did you find out, was it from the Mexican Conference? (For a psychic, he sure asks a lot of questions)<br />HUMP: The Mexican Prophet Conference. I’ve been working with them since they started, and I write for websites and magazines, but I also have a newspaper that I put out for free in Northern California, and so we run their ads and we have interviews. (Look for their ad in this and all HUMPs)<br />Uri: Where in Northern California?<br />HUMP: I’m in Chico, which is north of Sacramento.<br />Uri: Did I email you that my dog is called Chico?<br />HUMP: No.<br />Uri: I have a little Chihuahua called Chico. There you go. Its synchronicity for you. (Again, Uri is shameless in even using his dog to make a psychic point)<br />HUMP: Chico is a great town. <br />Uri: I should visit it one day.<br />HUMP; There’s been a lot of strange things that have happened here over the years. Robert Anton Wilson wrote about, in his research, how he found in 1910 in Chico, that fish fell out of the sky and covered a football field full of fish, and people came with their baskets and filled them up with fish.<br />Uri: That’s amazing. Maybe there are very powerful lay lines there.<br />HUMP: I wouldn’t doubt it! (what the hell are lay lines?)<br />Uri: Or maybe there is some kind of… almost a vortex, a magnetic pull, for this phenomenon to happen. Because, you know, in many places around the world, there are certain points on earth that very bizarre and strange things happen in. You know, where the pyramids are, in some spots in Israel, in Greece, in Turkey, in Japan very near Mt. Fuji very bizarre and odd events happen. So there could be some kind of…either a paranormal explanation of a supernatural explanation. Or maybe just Mother Nature is trying to tell us something.<br />HUMP: Mm hmm. And also, historically, in Chico, in the states, they say that the last Native American Indian, the last wild Indian, his name was Ishi, lived in Chico until he gave himself up to the white man. So there’s a lot of stuff that’s happened here. <br />Uri: You know, DNA, Ishi, in Hebrew, means two things. It means “very personal,” and it means “human”. So who knows? Maybe hundreds of years ago, if not thousands of years ago, there were connections between the Middle East and North America. That is also a possibility. Who knows? Maybe extraterrestrial intelligence landed here and made the connections.<br />HUMP: You’re going back to the alien stuff. People in Chico love that [laughs].<br />Uri: I am a very open-minded person. And I’ve seen certain things in my lifetime… I don’t know what you’ve read, but there are books out there that describe certain encounters that I went through with other people, that led me to believe that there could be an outside influence to do with my powers. And in a way, that discredits me. It tarnishes my reputation because if you come out and say, “I believe my powers come from UFOs”, then people think that you’re crazy. Even today, although more and more people now are more open-minded to the fact that aliens could be visiting us. <br />HUMP: I think that’s the power of your book. And I think that’s why, maybe, Andrew Weil came back to do the introduction, because the book steers away from fringe elements and gets to the heart of the matter. Transforming the self is crucial, and for those people like you and I who wanted to go deeper, those ideas are out there. But I think for most people, it would be a radical notion for them to just read your book, you know, let alone consider UFOs or where DNA comes from.<br />Uri: You know what you will really enjoy is my next book. Its coming out in the beginning of October, and I wrote it with a very controversial young American rabbi called Shmuley Boteach. You’ve probably seen him on Larry King or one of those shows, because he’s controversial because he wrote the book called Kosher Sex. And you know the establishment immediately attacked him, at least by the Jewish establishment. But the book is called True Confessions, and for the first time in my life, I really open up about certain things about myself and my past, and he opens up too. And I really recommend that you read this book as soon as it comes out.<br />HUMP: I will. I will do that. When I saw you on TV when I was quite young, there was something about you that opened up a new world for me, and you know, I was in fourth grade, and I went out to the library and started getting books like Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain and…<br />Uri: Well, we should get together the next time I’m in the states. (I love this guy!)<br />HUMP: We should. And a funny story is, in my family the story is that when my mother was pregnant with me, when she would walk in front of the TV set, the channel would change.<br />Uri: Wow.<br />HUMP: Yep.<br />Uri: So you do have powers yourself.<br />HUMP: I suppose so [laughs]. I think they’re untapped.<br />Uri: How do you now earn your living?<br />HUMP: That’s a good question. I do a lot of community work. I work with a lot of local talent and bands, and I do free concerts. I do a lot of free things. So I’m not sure how I earn my living yet.<br />Uri: Interesting. Did you know, DNA, that there is a band in America called SpoonBender? <br />HUMP: Oh, right! [laughs].<br />Uri: They’re actually from your area. They’re based in San Francisco.<br />HUMP: I’ll have to look them up.<br />Uri: Look them up on their website.<br />HUMP: I will do that. (Try mintrecords.com)<br />Uri: They’re really incredible. What else do you want to know? You know my diary is on my site.<br />HUMP: I’ve read it all. You know, one thing that really would interest me is, you have a friendship with Colin Wilson? (Colin is most famous for his book The Outsider.)<br />Uri: Oh, yeah. Actually, I just saw him three weeks ago.<br />HUMP: He is, again, one person that’s been hugely inspirational in my life, and the one book that I found most inspirational by him was Mind Parasites. Remember that? It was more of a science fiction story.<br />Uri: He wrote a lot of books, but I do remember that.<br />HUMP: Yeah, that one basically talked about how when you start to go within and to tap your own powers, there’s these parasites that stop you, and they cause self-doubt and then they cause insanity. And to me that seems like maybe they’re not actually an internal organism but our own self-doubt, but who knows? Within me and I think within most people, there are these blocks and these obstacles. What do you recommend for getting through those things, to basically loving yourself, instead of always reflecting doubt?<br />Uri: Well, its very important, in a way, to love yourself, because most people pay attention all the time to others around them, and they tend to neglect themselves. Physically and psychologically, and also their psy-abilities are neglected. And I think that in order to balance your mind, your body and your soul, you have to harness your psy-abilities. First, you have to awaken them, then you have to exercise them, and then you have to harness them. And in order to awaken them, there are obstacles to go through, and I just sort of tell people to try to constantly be positive. Always be optimistic and just believe in yourself, and that will pave the way to find that psy-factor in you. So the secret is really that you hold the secret. No one else can help. You can read a million books, but at the end of the day, you have to do it yourself. And many people do it through little devices like meditations and visualizations, affirmations, being with yourself, projecting your mind into space and time, coming back with very powerful information, you can drift your mind into infinity and come back, and search infinity and you’ll come back with very positive knowledge. And those are little triggers that will enable you to find yourself. Am I making sense?<br />HUMP: Yes sir. I think that a topic alongside psychic powers and aliens that I think is taboo in a lot of circles, to me, at least, that I’ve found, is something that you know about and I know about, is the notion of Judaism. I find that the whole thrust of what Judaism meant seems to have gotten co-opted about 2000 years ago, and there’s not a lot of serious insight into what happened in the old testament. It’s all about the New Testament these days. <br />Uri: Well, look, I think that the big, profound, the ritual events are to be found in the Cabala. And this is why lots of celebrities and movie stars now tend to learn the Cabala, and experience certain things, and go through certain rituals. But having said that, the Koran has also profound knowledge. The Bible has profound knowledge. It’s really the way you interpret what you read. And if you interpret in a way you can journey with that interpretation, then you will really understand that all religions are focused on one God, and if you pray to God, then you’re praying to one God. It doesn’t matter what religion you belong to. Now, again, Judaism probably has a deeper facet because of the struggle throughout the centuries. Thousands of years of the struggle to exist and to survive, and being a survivalist, having to survive, is such a major force that you inherit certain genes, and it’s in your DNA in a way. That’s why I believe that when God said the Jews were the chosen ones, I understand why he said that. I hope you understand me.<br />HUMP: I do understand you. (I’m really not sure here, but I think what he meant was the proof is in the pudding.)<br />Uri: Its difficult for me, being Jewish, to tell you “Oh, our religion is number one and the best”. They’re really all equal.<br />HUMP: Right. And I totally understand that. <br />Uri: You can find those facets and angles and different dimensions in all teachings of religion and belief systems.<br />HUMP: To wrap it up, one thing I found funny was one of the articles you had online about a fictional account of finding the Jewish gene and copywriting it. They were part of my favorite writings out of all of the books I’ve read. I really enjoyed your humor and your perspective.<br />Uri: What made you look at my website at all, and how did you find the Jewish Telegraph on it?<br />HUMP: I’m pretty thorough. I read everything on the web. I read every single piece of literature. I’ve read some of your older books, and I went out and read the new one, so… and I’m interested in you.<br />Uri: We definitely have to meet. Aren’t you going to Mexico?<br />HUMP: [laughs] I don’t know.<br />Uri: Why don’t you try to get a ticket from them, to send you there? You’re doing a lot of publicity for them. (Uri is giving me a pep talk)<br />HUMP: That’s true. I should pursue that.<br />Uri: Why don’t you talk to the people. I understand they’re in Hawaii.<br />HUMP: Yes, they are.<br />Uri: What’s the big deal for them to send you… Where are you actually based? What’s the closest airport?<br />HUMP: Like an hour away. <br />Uri: Where is it?<br />HUMP: In Sacramento.<br />Uri: Sacramento. And they fly to Mexico?<br />HUMP: Yeah.<br />Uri: So, you know, email Hawaii and tell them you had a long interview with me. Tell them that you will do a lot of P.R. for them through your free newspaper, etc, etc, and the least they can do is send a ticket.<br />HUMP: Yeah, I’ll try that angle, Uri. I appreciate that. (Not going to happen.)<br />Uri: What is that music I hear in the background?<br />HUMP: I have a pirate radio station. Its another one of those free things I do. (Recently defunct due to the complaints of a fucking sub-genius geek.)<br />Uri: Did you know that every Friday I have my own one-hour on American radio? <br />HUMP: Really? (You gotta love how relentless this guy is in promoting himself)<br />Uri: I know that we are heard in Los Angeles, but… its called “Good Day USA”.<br />HUMP: Is it on the Internet at all?<br />Uri: Of course it’s on the internet. Get on my Website. You will find it under “What’s New”. <br />It’s a major show. It’s the 8th largest radio show in the United States. Its called “Good Morning America”, and the main presenter is a guy called Doc Steffan, and he has me on every Friday for one hour. I think you’ll find that program fascinating.<br /><br /><br />And so friends, get out there and start reading peoples minds, you’ll be glad you did!!!!!DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-69521088089856645212008-07-14T20:01:00.000-07:002008-07-14T20:05:54.172-07:00Are You There God, it's Me.....DNAWe sit perched at the edge of a gigantic change.<br /><br />With legs dangling ominously into the future, haphazardly playing footsie with the apocalypse, nobody seems to have a cornered market on just what this change might be.<br /><br />Theorizing and postulating seems to be a lucrative career these days. But who has the patented answers, the indisputable truth? <br /><br />As many beings as there are on this planet, you can be sure that there are just as many beliefs, theories and perspectives on what might be. Even those that gather under the umbrellas of religion, rigorously trying to avoid the falling sky, cannot come to a consensus on where we come from, where we’re going or where exactly we are at this moment in time.<br /><br />Corner a Christian and demand an explanation of “heaven” or “hell,” and you’re guaranteed a distinctly different interpretation than any other member of the flock might bleat. We humans, as a lot, are really lost in the wave of humanity, carried along by sheer propagation and the tides of time. We are no closer to solving the dilemmas of sharing the planet with each other, then we were when we all lived in caves. Mesmerized by the chicanery of pundits, the long-lasting trance continues as we blindly stumble forward, catching our shirt on the exposed nail of deeper revelation. <br /><br />Lately I’ve come to the conclusion that it is sheer tomfoolery to suppose that we are the highest degree of evolution in the universe. Some argue that we never walked stooped on this planet, covered in thick hair and dragging our knuckles. Recent theorists says that the first uncovered skeleton of our ancestry was that of a man who suffered from scoliosis, not of being half-ape. As silly and somewhat tragic as the truth might be, chances are that in many ways we might have de-evolved as linear time passed on this blue ball. If social conscience is any indicator, we are on the downside of the evolutionary scale.<br /><br />Why might it not be that a species like Whales would be the true inheritors of the Universe? Jupiter’s moon, Eudora, has ocean’s that are miles deep, according to recent observations. Is it impossible to imagine alien cetaceans traversing the depths and underway of other planets? It certainly seems more likely that a species that has never engaged in war, rape, murder, and other ill-fated acts would be able to exist harmoniously on worlds where man has never wielded a stone. Fickle man and his hairless tribe of oppressors might more than certainly not be the true inheritors of the Universe.<br /><br />Humans are so firmly engaged in narcissistic traits that we cannot even suppose that we aren’t the kings of the Universe. And yet, we were wrong when we thought the Earth was the center of the Universe. We were wrong when we thought that we were the only Galaxy with planets in the Universe. We were wrong when we supposed that we only appeared here 3-5,000 years ago. We were wrong when we thought that space travel would never occur. We were wrong when we vehemently insisted (and still do) that white men were the best breed on the planet. In fact we have been wrong about so many things that it surprises me when a theorist comes along and tries to prove that humans are the best species on the planet, and everyone just grins and claps their hands. <br />We are just prisoners of our own mind and convictions, we know not if we shall continue on this planet. Our uncertain ways also indicate that we may never find out the true nature of our arrival on this spinning orb. No wonder so many desperately cling to blind faith, trying to enforce with billy-club and bible, their own half thought notions on others, rather than themselves. It figures that in our own misanthropic minds, we are the Emperors and overlords of providence, given godly discretion on those we deem under us. So I pose the question, “are we the true inheritors of a single gods wish’s, are we simply deluded with visions of grandeur, are we DNA seeded here long ago by cosmic farmers, are we some holographic rendering of a bored futurist, or are we the Captains of our own destiny?"” I, for one, cannot forge a sincere answer to this query. To me, any attempt would be a descent into the debacle of all times, spelunking into the unfathomable abyss, bungee-jumping without a cord……..DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-69895238624355965112008-04-18T10:47:00.001-07:002008-04-18T10:47:57.899-07:00It Does a Body Good?<a href="http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x95/votedna/?action=view¤t=1208540464.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x95/votedna/1208540464.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8886177538620200569.post-39925308933632236742008-04-18T10:46:00.001-07:002008-04-18T10:48:39.368-07:00It Does a Body Good!<a href="http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x95/votedna/?action=view¤t=1208540489.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x95/votedna/1208540489.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>DNAhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01484084965237468227noreply@blogger.com0